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Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 21:08:46 -0500
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To: Anthony Ferrara <ircmaxell@gmail.com>
Cc: Stas Malyshev <smalyshev@sugarcrm.com>, 
	"internals@lists.php.net" <internals@lists.php.net>
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Was Reflection annotations reader - We Need A Vision
From: theanomaly.is@gmail.com (Sherif Ramadan)

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On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 2:48 PM, Anthony Ferrara <ircmaxell@gmail.com> wrote=
:

>
>
> Am I guilty of being abusive? Absolutely. But I hope the abusiveness that=
 I
> portray at least tries to be constructive (if it's not always, I'm sorry)=
.
>


From the Merriam-Webster dictionary:
a=C2=B7bu=C2=B7sive
/=C9=99=CB=88byo=CD=9Eosiv/
(1) characterized by wrong or improper use or action; especially : corrupt
<abusive financial practices>
(2) using harsh insulting language <an angry and abusive crowd>;
characterized by or serving for abuse <abusive language>; physically
injurious <abusive behavior>

By what definition of the word could abusive ever be construed as
constructive?

I posit that you are far from constructive based on the nature of this
thread now revolving around your direct personal attack towards someone and
veering off from any real progress on internals matters.

One courtesy I will offer you that you -- yourself -- have not offered your
peers is the acknowledgement of your own contributions and opinions among
the rest of the contributors in an impartial manner.

You, like everyone contributing to PHP, have opinions, motives, and
convictions. That does not mean one should put their own opinions, motives,
and convictions above the group in order to make sure they are heard. This
is the equivalent of someone in the middle of a rioting crowd pushing
people out of the way in order to make sure they hear his plead for
calmness and order (do as I say not as I do). You certainly aren't setting
a good example if those are you motives.

This talk of BDFLs you are so incumbent to reiterate has been portrayed by
you in a biased light. You are forgetting to mention all the things BDFLs
in other open source projects do that you yourself are here asking us not
to do. Like using arguments such as "Language X is not language Y", which
I've heard Guido van Rossum say at a public talk on Python 3000. They also
have every right to "put their foot down" without allowing any room for
discussion as I've seen Linus Torvalds do on the Linux Kernel mailing list.
(Linus telling someone to STFU https://lkml.org/lkml/2012/12/23/75). You
seem to have dictatorship sorely confused with visionary leadership. If
even this were not the case then you should not be making those arguments
of vision and BDFLs interchangeably.

Anthony,

I appreciate your remarkable brilliance as a developer and I admire your
talent. However, one thing I've learned in my time as a developer is that
you never want the guy that's incredibly talented to stop asking questions
and start giving all the answers. There's a reason for this. You don't want
someone like that to get too cocky and believe they already know it all and
that all they can do now is teach others. It is true that you are
knowledgeable, but that does not preclude that you can't learn from others
on this list despite all of the shortcomings the list has to offer. It is
true that you are wise, but it does not mean that you have grown so wise
that you outwit the masses.

I hear people saying PHP has a vision that is web-centric and focused on
making it possible for both the "weekend-warrior" as well as the "9-to-5
guy" to make it in web development. You see that this vision is lacking, or
unrefined, or even completely diluted to the extent that it is not a vision
(and for whatever reason). That's fine. How are you solving this issue? I
don't hear anyone on this list backing you on this thought.

A good leader does not lead by wandering ahead of the crowd and telling
them what will come. A good leader walks among the crowd and asks them what
they want. I don't see any consensus gathering behind you. Perhaps these
group-thinks you allude to are really just people's honest opinion? Who
knows. The point is you should try to focus more on slowly building up
consensus if you feel your ideas are that valuable, and people will
ultimately follow if this is true. As opposed to making waves.

Sherif,
Mr. Always happy never grumpy!

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