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Message-ID: <C8E959A2-0B61-4D00-9F69-BA48D274DB05@gmail.com>
Cc: Sebastian Krebs <krebs.seb@gmail.com>,
 PHP internals list <internals@lists.php.net>
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2012 09:30:48 +1000
To: Ferenc Kovacs <tyra3l@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Combined assignment operator for short ternary
From: davidkmuir@gmail.com (David Muir)


On 26/08/2012, at 4:09 AM, Ferenc Kovacs <tyra3l@gmail.com> wrote:

> 2012.08.25. 19:50, "Sebastian Krebs" <krebs.seb@gmail.com> ezt =C3=ADrta:
>>=20
>> Am 25.08.2012 18:38, schrieb Ferenc Kovacs:
>>=20
>>>=20
>>>        would this trigger a notice if $foo is not defined?
>>>        if yes, then it would be different from the current behavior of
> the
>>>        ternary operator.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>    Couldn't believe it, thus I tested it myself
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> snip
>>>=20
>>>    Don't know, what you are talking about, but the notice _is_ the
>>>    current behaiour and therefore: No difference.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> Sorry, I messed up that email. What I wanted to say:
>>> If it accepts unset variable, then I could see usecases for it, but then=

>>> it would behave differently than the current ternary.
>>> If it doesn't accept unset variable then it would in line with what we
>>> have, but I don't see any usecase for it, because I would have to set it=

>>> before checking that it is falsely or not, in which case I would set it
>>> to the default if not set already.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>        if no, then I would never use this.
>>>        I mean if I have to set the variable before the check, then I
>>>        would put
>>>        the check into the assignment.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>    The main thought about it was
>>>=20
>>>    function foo ($bar =3D null) {
>>>         $bar =3D $bar ?: 'default';
>>>    }
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> If you wanted to enforce the 'default' value to be the default if no
>>> argument passed, then you could use $bar =3D 'default' in the method
>>> signature.
>>> So I guess that you use that construct to handle when the argument is
>>> passed, but it contains a falsely value ("0", array(), 0, etc.).
>>> I agree that this can be useful in some cases.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>    I _always_ use 'null' as default
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> For me, it isn't always null, sometimes it is boolean true/false, or an
>>> empty array.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>    - If you want to omit a parameter, but want to set one after that,
>>>    you don't need to look whats the default: It's 'null'
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> my IDE takes care of that problem for me.
>>=20
>>=20
>> Only works on the green field ;) And/or if you are alone ...
>>=20
>>=20
>>>=20
>>>    - Ive often enough seen something like
>>>=20
>>>    function foo ($limit =3D 10) { /* code */ }
>>>    // Somewhere else
>>>    function bar ($limit =3D 50) { /* code */ $foo($limit); /* code */}
>>>    // Even somewhere else
>>>    bar();
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> same here.
>>=20
>>=20
>> Same here :p
>>=20
>>=20
>>>=20
>>> --
>>> Ferenc Kov=C3=A1cs
>>> @Tyr43l - http://tyrael.hu
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> --
>> PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List
>> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>>=20
>=20
> So you are saying that your (teams) IDE doesn't tell you the method
> signature which contains also the default values?
> I guess that the fact that many of the php core functions have optional
> arguments and non null defaults must be really a PITA for you.

I think what he was alluding to is the problem where one changes the default=
. All usages of the method/function then need to be updated. Using null toda=
y is very much like using the proposed 'default' parameter skipping RFC.

Cheers,
David=