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Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2012 16:44:24 +0200
Message-ID: <CAF+90c_1+YR_dJLUrF_JS001GJog2L6f+w8EuYskP_-uY7HuBg@mail.gmail.com>
To: Jonathan Bond-Caron <jbondc@openmv.com>
Cc: Anthony Ferrara <ircmaxell@gmail.com>, internals@lists.php.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [PROPOSED] password_hash RFC - Implementing simplified
 password hashing functions
From: nikita.ppv@gmail.com (Nikita Popov)

On Tue, Jul 31, 2012 at 4:28 PM, Jonathan Bond-Caron <jbondc@openmv.com> wrote:
> Thanks, I missed it...
>
> I strongly disagree with this, the 'pepper' IMHO is a best practice for web
> applications.
>
> I prefer to live with the idea that an attacker may comprise some
> database(s) in the 'cloud' but not the physical machine where you can store
> the pepper either in a file, share memory etc...
>
> As far as missing research papers, it's hard to do research on the benefit
> of keeping something private. If/when databases do get hacked, it's rarely
> released to the public how it happened.
>
> When it comes to web applications, my opinion is odds are greater in SQL
> injection / data theft success then gaining physical access to the machine.
> #1 SQL Injection: https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Top_10_2010
>
> Sure it's an added layer of security but it's hard to deny the 'pepper'
> can't help protect passwords against the #1 risk for php/web applications.
>
>
> A pepper in UNIX crypt() itself would be obviously useless, the user already
> has access to the physical machine (cat /etc/passwd).

If you really want to use a secret you should encrypt the resulting
password hash with a proper encryption algorithm. Hashing algorithms
are not designed for this purpose.

Nikita