Newsgroups: php.internals
Path: news.php.net
Xref: news.php.net php.internals:60118
Mailing-List: contact internals-help@lists.php.net; run by ezmlm
Received-SPF: pass (pb1.pair.com: domain gmail.com designates 74.125.82.170 as permitted sender)
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <op.wcxilasdidpuyk@damnation.mshome.net>
References: <4F8D1469.9030709@lerdorf.com>
	<CAKOpQSw6YoTEKh+qBbJQOqodeGhYhZmVL9rHpdvfejZZQE9DVA@mail.gmail.com>
	<4F8DC894.50804@lerdorf.com>
	<CAORXhGLLm5Yrbtb7mzXUNUOZODQZ9kckKY8voj=ymZ_c0jtoTQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<DDE958BC-2C13-40F9-B61A-5616C95E0D17@gmail.com>
	<op.wcxilasdidpuyk@damnation.mshome.net>
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2012 15:13:36 -0700
Message-ID: <CAKOpQSw_i6nyqiq92vUGvL_BXmkF2=EG3yUDMy9XK7ifd8A9yw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Gustavo Lopes <glopes@nebm.ist.utl.pt>
Cc: internals@lists.php.net
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6d625740d217004bde740e5
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Some Stats
From: kris.craig@gmail.com (Kris Craig)

--0016e6d625740d217004bde740e5
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 2:42 PM, Gustavo Lopes <glopes@nebm.ist.utl.pt>wrote:

> On Tue, 17 Apr 2012 23:23:35 +0200, Tjerk Meesters
> <tjerk.meesters@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>  Maybe this has been suggested before, but it would be nice if comments
>> in, ahem, request for comments could be consolidated into one spot, the RFC
>> page itself. Facebook comments come to mind, though I'm sure there are
>> other solutions based on OpenID, etc.
>>
>>
> This list should remain the main place for discussing PHP development. The
> volume of e-mails can be mitigated by sending more consolidated answers
> (that cover several points discussed recently) and avoiding recycling
> arguments.
>
> It's of little use to bring the same issues over and over again, be it
> with different or the same people. It doesn't matter if someone didn't
> "get it", you don't have to convince him individually that you're right as
> that will have a near null effect on the outcome of the RFC.
>
> In my opinion, one of the problems with these RFC threads is that the
> proposers are busy retorting over and over again instead of just
> collecting the objections and address them either by changing the proposal
> or responding *once* in a well thought-out manner. That objection and a
> short response should also be included in the RFC to avoid it being
> brought up again.
>
> --
> Gustavo Lopes
>
>
> --
> PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List
> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>
>
Yeah one of the problems that really frustrates the hell out of me is that,
after I've answered a question or responded to an objection, somebody new
jumps in and raises the exact same issue.  When I tell them to read earlier
in the thread for my answer, they tend to get hostile and will often just
keep re-repeating the criticism until I finally get fed-up and just repeat
the response I'd posted earlier.  Rinse and repeat.

I'm naturally verbose and so I'll always tend to have more volume than the
average, but a huge portion of it could be eliminated if we could find a
way to break this pattern of the proposer being beaten over the head with
the same criticism(s) over and over and over again regardless of whether or
not it was responded to.

In my current RFC, once we eventually were able to break out of that
circular pattern, we started to actually make some real progress.  So I
definitely agree that this is a problem and no doubt there are things that
I and other proposers can do to help, but I think a large bulk of the
problem is actually happening on the other end.  The proposer then has the
option to either shut up and not argue for their proposal or add to the
incessant volume of noise.  I'm not one to simply lie back and give-up when
things get tough, but I'll try to see if I can find a way to consolidate my
responses better.  However, we have to do something on the other end of
this as well or the problem will persist.

--Kris

--0016e6d625740d217004bde740e5--