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Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2012 00:33:02 +0200
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To: Michael Morris <dmgx.michael@gmail.com>
Cc: PHP Internals <internals@lists.php.net>
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] A possible defining characteristic of PHP 6 ( was [off]
 PHP: a fractal of bad design )
From: simonsimcity@googlemail.com (Simon Schick)

Hi, Michael

2012/4/13 Michael Morris <dmgx.michael@gmail.com>
>
> It would not be easy. =C2=A0I lack the skills required. =C2=A0And those w=
ho have
> the skills lack the monumental time required. =C2=A0But PHP could do what
> Adobe did with Actionscript. =C2=A0But it would not be easy or painless. =
It
> probably isn't worth it. =C2=A0But the tools are in place and there are R=
FC
> ideas out there that, taken together might accomplish a fix. =C2=A0But to
> what end?

I'm currently working on getting into the C (and C++) code for PHP,
reading the articles on ircmaxell's blog:
http://blog.ircmaxell.com/2012/03/phps-source-code-for-php-developers.html

If you want to develop and help the php-community, I think this is a
good place to start from.

>
> The idea I thought of a long time ago when AS3 came out was to do much
> the same with PHP. =C2=A0PHP 6 would ship with a legacy mode. =C2=A0In th=
at mode
> all the existing functions would exist on the root namespace. =C2=A0Turn =
it
> off though and those functions disappear and get moved to \Legacy.
> What actually remains is a remapped function library, perhaps taking
> advantages of the autoboxing RFC to "fake" primitives as objects and
> allow the sort of chaining we see in JavaScript. =C2=A0Not every possible
> function would be present in this model - libraries such as mysql,
> mysqli or pdo would be imported into scope.

On one side I'd like to have a namespaced core ... but I don't think
this would be a good idea to say that no script written for PHP5 will
work in PHP6 an vice-versa.

>
> But this wouldn't be easy, and I don't think the willpower exists to
> do it. This is after all a volunteer effort, and there are some things
> that are simply out of the scope of such efforts.
>
> PHP's goal has always been KISS, but the decisions over the last few
> years run contrary to that. =C2=A0Most onerous is, where Javascript, Java
> and C have one scope resolution operator - a period - PHP has three
> (->, \, :: ). =C2=A0The only possible backwards compat fix to that is to
> set up PHP 6 to not give a rat's ass about which of the three you use.
> =C2=A0That would restore simplicity, and two of the operators would die o=
ff
> (my money is on :: and \ dying) in common use. =C2=A0The engine
> implications of that change are likely staggering. =C2=A0This isn't the
> only structural issue that needs to be addressed either. =C2=A0Taken
> together they are significant.
>
> As to the original post that started this - it is what it is, a
> blogger wanting attention, stating the obvious and trying to look
> smart. =C2=A0I'm singularly unimpressed and reading the other responses I=
'm
> not alone.
>
> It would help to have a conversation about what we want the next major
> to be like before starting any work on it. =C2=A0Otherwise it will just b=
e
> another evolution when what PHP really could use is a revolution the
> likes of which hasn't been seen since PHP 3 came out. =C2=A0But that
> conversation itself will take time and the scope of what must be done
> must truly be daunting.