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Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2012 17:30:45 -0400
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To: Reindl Harald <h.reindl@thelounge.net>
Cc: internals@lists.php.net
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP as a template language
From: tom@punkave.com (Tom Boutell)

I should have said "breaking mysteriously in weird subtle ways if
there are blank lines before <?php."

On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 5:30 PM, Tom Boutell <tom@punkave.com> wrote:
> Knock it off with the ad-hominem attacks please. It's not "change for
> the sake of change" to propose that PHP move on from needing <?php at
> the stop of every class file (and breaking mysteriously in weird
> subtle ways if it's missing, due to unneeded whitespace being output)
> and recognize that it's a modern language in which you don't mix
> unparsed HTML with source code. Especially since I suggested offering
> this feature when an alternate file extension is used, to make bc
> possible. Your attitude discourages participation.
>
> On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 5:25 PM, Reindl Harald <h.reindl@thelounge.net> wr=
ote:
>> what exactly is your problem?
>> having solution searching problem?
>>
>> what are people like you try to achieve?
>> what would make you happy in breaking BC?
>> what would you make happy generate lot of work for others?
>> what would be better for anybody?
>>
>> change for the sake of the change is blindly stupid
>>
>> Am 06.04.2012 23:20, schrieb Tom Boutell:
>>> To tell the truth I'd be more excited by a proposal to kill <?php
>>> entirely, or more realistically, to support an alternate file
>>> extension that doesn't need it. That would be an interesting option
>>> for those who want to put "dribs and drabs of PHP sprinkled in HTML"
>>> completely behind them.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 5:19 PM, Tom Boutell <tom@punkave.com> wrote:
>>>> I have to agree with that. Also: does PHP need to be a templating
>>>> language anymore, given excellent templating language implementations
>>>> in PHP, like Twig?
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 3:05 PM, John Crenshaw <johncrenshaw@priacta.co=
m> wrote:
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: S=E9batien Durand [mailto:sunseb@live.com]
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 10:55 PM
>>>>>> To: internals@lists.php.net
>>>>>> Subject: [PHP-DEV] PHP as a template language
>>>>>>
>>>>>> IMHO, PHP is a great template language. This is what makes it so sim=
ple and powerful, compared to other web languages.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So far, we have "<?php", "<?=3D" and various legacy syntaxes like "<=
?".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A suggestion : deprecate these old tags and replace them with a more=
 elegant and a shorter implementation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For example : "<%" and "<%=3D" or "{%" and "{{" ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What do you think, guys ?
>>>>>
>>>>> Honestly this is the wrong question. PHP as a template language has m=
uch larger problems than this. The difference between <?php echo and <?=3D =
is 7 characters and entirely cosmetic. The difference relative to <?php ech=
o htmlentities(..., ENT_QUOTES | ENT_HTML5, 'UTF-8'); ?> however is 56 char=
acters, security, and encoding bugs.
>>>>>
>>>>> Proper handling of output escaping is standard in modern template lan=
guages. The question shouldn't be "should we add a cooler short tag?". The =
question should be "What needs to be done to make PHP an industry leader in=
 template languages again?".
>>>>>
>>>>> My two cents,
>>>>>
>>>>> John Crenshaw
>>>>> Priacta, Inc.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List
>>>>> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Tom Boutell
>>>> P'unk Avenue
>>>> 215 755 1330
>>>> punkave.com
>>>> window.punkave.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Mit besten Gr=FC=DFen, Reindl Harald
>> the lounge interactive design GmbH
>> A-1060 Vienna, Hofm=FChlgasse 17
>> CTO / software-development / cms-solutions
>> p: +43 (1) 595 3999 33, m: +43 (676) 40 221 40
>> icq: 154546673, http://www.thelounge.net/
>>
>> http://www.thelounge.net/signature.asc.what.htm
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Tom Boutell
> P'unk Avenue
> 215 755 1330
> punkave.com
> window.punkave.com



--=20
Tom Boutell
P'unk Avenue
215 755 1330
punkave.com
window.punkave.com