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Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2012 17:30:10 -0400
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To: Reindl Harald <h.reindl@thelounge.net>
Cc: internals@lists.php.net
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP as a template language
From: tom@punkave.com (Tom Boutell)

Knock it off with the ad-hominem attacks please. It's not "change for
the sake of change" to propose that PHP move on from needing <?php at
the stop of every class file (and breaking mysteriously in weird
subtle ways if it's missing, due to unneeded whitespace being output)
and recognize that it's a modern language in which you don't mix
unparsed HTML with source code. Especially since I suggested offering
this feature when an alternate file extension is used, to make bc
possible. Your attitude discourages participation.

On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 5:25 PM, Reindl Harald <h.reindl@thelounge.net> wrot=
e:
> what exactly is your problem?
> having solution searching problem?
>
> what are people like you try to achieve?
> what would make you happy in breaking BC?
> what would you make happy generate lot of work for others?
> what would be better for anybody?
>
> change for the sake of the change is blindly stupid
>
> Am 06.04.2012 23:20, schrieb Tom Boutell:
>> To tell the truth I'd be more excited by a proposal to kill <?php
>> entirely, or more realistically, to support an alternate file
>> extension that doesn't need it. That would be an interesting option
>> for those who want to put "dribs and drabs of PHP sprinkled in HTML"
>> completely behind them.
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 5:19 PM, Tom Boutell <tom@punkave.com> wrote:
>>> I have to agree with that. Also: does PHP need to be a templating
>>> language anymore, given excellent templating language implementations
>>> in PHP, like Twig?
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 3:05 PM, John Crenshaw <johncrenshaw@priacta.com=
> wrote:
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: S=E9batien Durand [mailto:sunseb@live.com]
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 10:55 PM
>>>>> To: internals@lists.php.net
>>>>> Subject: [PHP-DEV] PHP as a template language
>>>>>
>>>>> IMHO, PHP is a great template language. This is what makes it so simp=
le and powerful, compared to other web languages.
>>>>>
>>>>> So far, we have "<?php", "<?=3D" and various legacy syntaxes like "<?=
".
>>>>>
>>>>> A suggestion : deprecate these old tags and replace them with a more =
elegant and a shorter implementation.
>>>>>
>>>>> For example : "<%" and "<%=3D" or "{%" and "{{" ?
>>>>>
>>>>> What do you think, guys ?
>>>>
>>>> Honestly this is the wrong question. PHP as a template language has mu=
ch larger problems than this. The difference between <?php echo and <?=3D i=
s 7 characters and entirely cosmetic. The difference relative to <?php echo=
 htmlentities(..., ENT_QUOTES | ENT_HTML5, 'UTF-8'); ?> however is 56 chara=
cters, security, and encoding bugs.
>>>>
>>>> Proper handling of output escaping is standard in modern template lang=
uages. The question shouldn't be "should we add a cooler short tag?". The q=
uestion should be "What needs to be done to make PHP an industry leader in =
template languages again?".
>>>>
>>>> My two cents,
>>>>
>>>> John Crenshaw
>>>> Priacta, Inc.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List
>>>> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Tom Boutell
>>> P'unk Avenue
>>> 215 755 1330
>>> punkave.com
>>> window.punkave.com
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
>
> Mit besten Gr=FC=DFen, Reindl Harald
> the lounge interactive design GmbH
> A-1060 Vienna, Hofm=FChlgasse 17
> CTO / software-development / cms-solutions
> p: +43 (1) 595 3999 33, m: +43 (676) 40 221 40
> icq: 154546673, http://www.thelounge.net/
>
> http://www.thelounge.net/signature.asc.what.htm
>



--=20
Tom Boutell
P'unk Avenue
215 755 1330
punkave.com
window.punkave.com