Newsgroups: php.internals Path: news.php.net Xref: news.php.net php.internals:58277 Return-Path: Mailing-List: contact internals-help@lists.php.net; run by ezmlm Delivered-To: mailing list internals@lists.php.net Received: (qmail 56824 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2012 21:05:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lists.php.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 28 Feb 2012 21:05:25 -0000 Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com header.from=johncrenshaw@priacta.com; sender-id=pass Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com smtp.mail=johncrenshaw@priacta.com; spf=pass; sender-id=pass Received-SPF: pass (pb1.pair.com: domain priacta.com designates 64.95.72.244 as permitted sender) X-PHP-List-Original-Sender: johncrenshaw@priacta.com X-Host-Fingerprint: 64.95.72.244 mxout.myoutlookonline.com Received: from [64.95.72.244] ([64.95.72.244:33957] helo=mxout.myoutlookonline.com) by pb1.pair.com (ecelerity 2.1.1.9-wez r(12769M)) with ESMTP id 75/F3-36673-4914D4F4 for ; Tue, 28 Feb 2012 16:05:24 -0500 Received: from mxout.myoutlookonline.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mxout.myoutlookonline.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB26C8BE589; Tue, 28 Feb 2012 16:05:21 -0500 (EST) X-Virus-Scanned: by SpamTitan at mail.lan Received: from HUB012.mail.lan (unknown [10.110.2.1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-MD5 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mxout.myoutlookonline.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 640948BE098; Tue, 28 Feb 2012 16:05:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from MAILR001.mail.lan ([10.110.18.27]) by HUB012.mail.lan ([10.110.17.12]) with mapi; Tue, 28 Feb 2012 16:05:20 -0500 To: Anthony Ferrara , Kris Craig CC: "internals@lists.php.net" , Arvids Godjuks , Michael Morris , Lazare Inepologlou Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2012 16:05:17 -0500 Thread-Topic: [PHP-DEV] Scalar type hinting Thread-Index: Acz2VdibIWgqSNZNQxqjnzv8RZSUbgABgrSA Message-ID: References: <1330357150.2159.30.camel@guybrush> <4F4C1324.2040905@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: RE: [PHP-DEV] Scalar type hinting From: johncrenshaw@priacta.com (John Crenshaw) Yeah, I proposed this the other day. We need to go through the hundreds of = historical emails on the subject and consolidate all the information into a= central document outlining all the information that has been developed ove= r the years. Lots of benefits to this. If multiple people want to participa= te in this process we can probably partition it by date ranges. John Crenshaw Priacta, Inc. -----Original Message----- From: Anthony Ferrara [mailto:ircmaxell@gmail.com]=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2012 3:15 PM To: Kris Craig Cc: internals@lists.php.net; Arvids Godjuks; Michael Morris; Lazare Inepolo= glou Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Scalar type hinting Can I make a suggestion? Instead of an rfc, can we collate the existing di= scussion into an easier to digest format (historical as well). Summarize t= he conversations and existing rfcs with the discussion around them (includi= ng the pros/cons and problems). That way we have a point of reference and = comparison with which to base the rfc on, and a way to judge and rate the r= fc... Anthony On Feb 28, 2012 3:09 PM, "Kris Craig" wrote: > @Michael Would you be willing to delay that? Rather than create a=20 > bunch of new RFC's, I was thinking it might be better if all=20 > interested parties came together on some other communication medium=20 > and worked on a single, collaborative RFC instead. > > --Kris > > > On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 12:00 PM, Michael Morris=20 > >wrote: > > > Thank you. > > > > Now I'm going to go work up a detailed RFC for what I posted earlier=20 > > with some additional clarification as to when errors should and=20 > > shouldn't be thrown. > > > > On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 2:53 PM, John Crenshaw=20 > > > > > wrote: > > > OK everyone, it seems that some people have forgotten or missed=20 > > > the > > original agreement that this thread started with. There is a > communication > > disconnect ("strict typing" means horribly different things to=20 > > different people right now). Please read through and understand the=20 > > following terminology before continuing to post on this thread.=20 > > We've agreed to the following terms: > > > > > > - "Strict Typing" means the super strict old C style typing *with=20 > > > no > > implicit conversions*. (If you really think this is what you want,=20 > > you > are > > probably mistaken. Look through prior discussions on this topic.=20 > > This > fails > > for numerous reasons, including the fact that almost every input to=20 > > PHP > is > > a string.) > > > - "Weak Typing" means types in the same sense that the PHP > documentation > > uses types (for example, the docs indicate substr(string, integer),=20 > > and substr(12345, "2") =3D=3D "345".) (If you think you want "strict=20 > > typing", > this > > is probably what you mean.) > > > - "No Scalar Typing" should be used to indicate the current system > > (where there is no provision for hinting at scalar types.) > > > > > > In addition, if someone potentially new expresses support for=20 > > > "Strict > > Typing", please assume that they really mean weak typing unless=20 > > proven otherwise (this is by far the more likely intent.) Don't get=20 > > mean, > politely > > clarify terminology so that everyone can be on the same page. If=20 > > someone still insists that they want "Strict Typing" (as defined=20 > > above), point > them > > to the prior discussions on the topic which explain exactly what the=20 > > problems with this are. > > > > > > John Crenshaw > > > Priacta, Inc. > > > > -- > > PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe,=20 > > visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php > > > > >