Newsgroups: php.internals Path: news.php.net Xref: news.php.net php.internals:58227 Return-Path: Mailing-List: contact internals-help@lists.php.net; run by ezmlm Delivered-To: mailing list internals@lists.php.net Received: (qmail 35865 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2012 04:46:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lists.php.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 28 Feb 2012 04:46:34 -0000 Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com header.from=johncrenshaw@priacta.com; sender-id=pass Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com smtp.mail=johncrenshaw@priacta.com; spf=pass; sender-id=pass Received-SPF: pass (pb1.pair.com: domain priacta.com designates 64.95.72.244 as permitted sender) X-PHP-List-Original-Sender: johncrenshaw@priacta.com X-Host-Fingerprint: 64.95.72.244 mxout.myoutlookonline.com Received: from [64.95.72.244] ([64.95.72.244:27693] helo=mxout.myoutlookonline.com) by pb1.pair.com (ecelerity 2.1.1.9-wez r(12769M)) with ESMTP id C0/D4-12873-82C5C4F4 for ; Mon, 27 Feb 2012 23:46:33 -0500 Received: from mxout.myoutlookonline.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mxout.myoutlookonline.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F8AF553A10; Mon, 27 Feb 2012 23:46:30 -0500 (EST) X-Virus-Scanned: by SpamTitan at mail.lan Received: from HUB016.mail.lan (unknown [10.110.2.1]) by mxout.myoutlookonline.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CCC5553A31; Mon, 27 Feb 2012 23:46:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from MAILR001.mail.lan ([10.110.18.27]) by HUB016.mail.lan ([10.110.17.16]) with mapi; Mon, 27 Feb 2012 23:46:14 -0500 To: Kris Craig , =?iso-8859-1?Q?=C1ngel_Gonz=E1lez?= CC: Anthony Ferrara , Ferenc Kovacs , Michael Morris , "internals@lists.php.net" Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2012 23:46:25 -0500 Thread-Topic: [PHP-DEV] Scalar type hinting Thread-Index: Acz1qLoiGCf08Y+WSlaAVGYGqXGD6QAJYLeA Message-ID: References: <1330357150.2159.30.camel@guybrush> <4F4C1324.2040905@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: RE: [PHP-DEV] Scalar type hinting From: johncrenshaw@priacta.com (John Crenshaw) I don't think we need yet another list. That said, I think that some featur= es (such as weak typing) would benefit greatly from having a small body of = people get together and flesh out a proposal together before presenting it = for sacrifice on the altar of public discussion. Part of the value in this = is keeping the group limited to just collaborators on that specific feature= , so a general features mailing list wouldn't really add anything. Not sure how you want to coordinate this group. In my company we have a dis= tributed team and we typically coordinate this sort of design process using= Google Docs + Donedesk(our own product, but free) + Skype. This works well= and strikes a nice balance between persistent and realtime collaboration. = I'm open to other ideas, but if I had to choose how to coordinate a group t= o design a single feature, that's what I would use. John Crenshaw Priacta, Inc. -----Original Message----- From: Kris Craig [mailto:kris.craig@gmail.com]=20 Sent: Monday, February 27, 2012 6:36 PM To: =C1ngel Gonz=E1lez Cc: Anthony Ferrara; Ferenc Kovacs; Michael Morris; internals@lists.php.net Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Scalar type hinting I agree. What does everyone think about the idea of creating a new list sp= ecifically discussion of new feature ideas? The idea could be announced on= the Internals list with a link to the discussion on the other list. That way, the noise ratio would be reduced and only those who are intereste= d in brainstorming new ideas would have to listen to it. Thoughts? --Kris 2012/2/27 =C1ngel Gonz=E1lez > On 27/02/12 22:52, Anthony Ferrara wrote: > > Ferenc, > > > > Thanks for the comments! > Thanks from me, too. > > And thanks to you, Anthony if you get to summarise that. > > > >> There were ideas, but they didn't have enough traction. > >> IMO we can't have a proper solution without changing the existing > behavior > >> for complex types, if you implement strict typing for scalars that > turns the > >> language strict typed, if you add dynamic/weak typing for the=20 > >> scalars, > you > >> will have an inconsistent implementation. > > What behavior would need to be changed for complex types? Adding=20 > > the ability to hint/cast between trees? I'm kind of confused by=20 > > this bit... > I suspect one of the scalars should be complex (=3D objects?) > > > > > I think that's my biggest problem with the dynamics of this list. > > Ideas aren't really nurtured as well as they could be. If the idea=20 > > is solid, and has an implementation, then it's great. But there are=20 > > plenty of seedling ideas that get lost or down trodden-ed simply=20 > > because it's not bulletproof... > Yes, the noise ratio of this list is quite high. Probably related to=20 > its high volume. That makes people faster in discarding ideas as "been=20 > there" > and generates friction. And low-quality discussions like that don't=20 > attract smart people insights, precisely. > It's a vicious circle. > > > -- > PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe,=20 > visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php > >