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Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2012 17:48:01 -0800
Message-ID: <CAKOpQSwHoUmMagvw_k_kjMNENzu_jR_G3417VGQVCdsG4L7OSA@mail.gmail.com>
To: John Crenshaw <johncrenshaw@priacta.com>
Cc: Arvids Godjuks <arvids.godjuks@gmail.com>, 
	"internals@lists.php.net" <internals@lists.php.net>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d04182610f2933304b9e84c8f
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Enum proposal (yet another)
From: kris.craig@gmail.com (Kris Craig)

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Well said, John!  I think that's a terrific idea!

--Kris


On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 5:44 PM, John Crenshaw <johncrenshaw@priacta.com>wrote:

> > From: Kris Craig [mailto:kris.craig@gmail.com]
> >
> > I actually agree as well.  Looking back in the thread, I think my overly
> > broad use of the word "strict" might have led to some confusion over what
> > I'm advocating.
>
> Honestly, this is the biggest problem that the typing debates have had.
> Someone advocates "strict typing" when they really mean "weak typing" (as
> opposed to the current "dynamic typing") but there's always a group of
> people that assume they mean "strict strict strict typing like the old C
> days". People then panic and get frustrated because the plethora of
> problems with adding this level of restriction to PHP have already been
> discussed extensively. Discussion then devolves into denigration and then
> finally disintegrates completely.
>
> If we can agree on some basic terminology I think it would move things
> forward considerably. I propose these terms:
> - "Strict Typing" means the super strict old C style typing that has been
> proven to be ridiculous in this environment because of the obvious problems
> inherent in the fact that almost every input is a string.
> - "Weak Typing" means types in the same sense that the PHP documentation
> uses types (for example, the docs indicate substr(string, integer), and
> substr(12345, "2") == "345".)
> - "No Scalar Typing" should be used to indicate the current system (where
> there is no provision for hinting at scalar types.)
>
> In addition, if someone potentially new expresses support for "Strict
> Typing", let's assume that they really mean weak typing unless proven
> otherwise (this is by far the more likely intent.) Politely clarify
> terminology so that everyone can be on the same page. If someone still
> insists that they want "Strict Typing", point them to the prior discussions
> on the topic which explain exactly what the problems with this are.
>
> It might be wise to maintain a wiki article to keep track of the 3
> different levels of typing, as well as a summary of the typical arguments
> pro and con for each of the 3. If people agree that this would be helpful,
> I'm willing to dig through the archives and try to put this together.
>
> John Crenshaw
> Priacta, Inc.
>

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