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Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2011 17:07:19 -0500
Cc: Paul Dragoonis <dragoonis@gmail.com>,
 Rasmus Lerdorf <rasmus@lerdorf.com>,
 Keloran <ava3ar@gmail.com>,
 Dmitri Snytkine <dsnytkine@ultralogistics.com>,
 Alain Williams <addw@phcomp.co.uk>,
 "internals@lists.php.net" <internals@lists.php.net>
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To: John Crenshaw <johncrenshaw@priacta.com>
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Return Type Hinting for Methods RFC
From: will.fitch@gmail.com (Will Fitch)

So, are we in agreement that, within the scope of this RFC, type hinting =
is going to be limited to and match parameter type hinting?

On Dec 22, 2011, at 3:35 PM, John Crenshaw wrote:

> From: Paul Dragoonis [mailto:dragoonis@gmail.com]=20
>=20
>> On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 6:41 PM, Rasmus Lerdorf <rasmus@lerdorf.com> =
wrote:
>>=20
>>> On 12/22/2011 07:08 AM, Keloran wrote:
>>>> i would love to see this expanded aswell (the way type hinting on
>>> function
>>>> variables was supposed to be), so that it could be
>>>>=20
>>>> string, int
>>>>=20
>>>> e.g.
>>>> function int test(bool $tester) {
>>>> if ($tester) { return 5; }
>>>> return 99;
>>>> }
>>>=20
>>> Return type hinting needs to be aligned with parameter type hinting,=20=

>>> and as has been pointed out many times on this list, type hinting =
for=20
>>> interchangable scalar types is a really bad idea. It will push all=20=

>>> type checking up to the caller of the underlying functions/methods.=20=

>>> PHP is primarily a Web scripting language and the Web isn't typed.=20=

>>> Having stuff like this break:
>>>=20
>>> if(age_check($_POST['age'])) { do_stuff(); }
>>>=20
>>> because the author of the age_check() function added an int type =
hint=20
>>> just doesn't make any sense. It would cause everyone to have to =
start=20
>>> casting things everywhere, just in case. eg.
>>>=20
>>> if(age_check((int)$_POST['age'])) { do_stuff(); }
>>>=20
>>> This is not a step forward. If the author of age_check() really=20
>>> doesn't want to accept type-juggled arguments, then it is easy =
enough=20
>>> to do a strict type check in the function itself. This puts the =
effort=20
>>> in the correct place and doesn't encourage this type of coding.
>>>=20
>>=20
>> I agree with Rasmus.
>>=20
>> My opinion:
>> This isn't java, if you want a strongly typed language, there's =
plenty out there, but we're not looking to make PHP more like Java and =
the rest, if it was like Java then it wouldn't have been successful for =
the web as it is/was. PHP is popular because of the way it was from the =
start, if php _needed_ scalar typehints then it wouldn't have been as =
popular.
>=20
>> There is need for the existing Typehinting for class types so you =
don't need to have is_a() function calls. This makes sense.
>=20
>> Scalars are VERY powerful in PHP, because of its loose typed nature. =
Having a 'numeric' typehint makes sense, because it can be an int, =
float, or string. Adding typehints like 'int' and 'float' will only piss =
people off, and make PHP more difficult and less fluent to code in.
>=20
>> Lets not go there please..
>=20
>> Thanks,
>> Paul Dragoonis.
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>>=20
>>> -Rasmus
>>>=20
>>> --
>>> PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe,=20=

>>> visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>>>=20
>>>=20
>=20
> Slightly off topic, but I keep seeing this problem:
>=20
> "PHP is not language X" is a terrible argument. This is a smokescreen =
designed to insult the other person, belittle their concerns, and avoid =
discussing the real issue. This doesn't advance the discussion at all.=20=

>=20
> Concluding that PHP is popular because you can't {insert requested =
feature here} is also ridiculous but it happens again and again whenever =
language features are discussed. PHP is popular independent of not =
{insert missing feature here}. It is popular because it was on the scene =
early, has good server support, and does an excellent job of making it =
trivial to handle most simple web requests.
>=20
> Nobody wants to be told to shut up and go use language X.
>=20
> Let's discuss things on their own merits.
>=20
> /rant
>=20
> John Crenshaw
> Priacta, Inc.
>=20
> --
> PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List
> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>=20