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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] who can vote
From: smalyshev@sugarcrm.com (Stas Malyshev)

Hi!

> can keep dreaming about our famous "let make it easy to people to
> contribute", it won't work as we are not willing to give them a voice.

I don't think one implies the other. If one helps PHP project it's 
great, really, but that doesn't mean one can have his pet feature pushed 
through over objections of other project participants. It can't work 
this way - there should be control and there should be consensus.

> The last example of such a case is the SplClassLoader, the gap between
> our communities and us is getting even larger. I think it is time to
> consider their views and voices, especially as we get new contributors
> (you know, the people actually doing the job?).

So who exactly of the people that's actually doing the job is not 
allowed to contribute his ideas?

> About who can vote, community leaders and php.net developers have the
> same weight. There should not be some higher voters class, be inside
> core devs, doc, or whatever else. It will just reproduce the horrible
> things we had for years where some thought they can alone decide what
> should be php or a specific area of the language.

I don't remember any horrible things and any dictatorship happening in 
the history of PHP that led to any unimaginable horrors. As in any big 
project, there were mistakes, there were screwups and there were 
unobvious decisions that in the hindsight look bad - but I don't see how 
more people voting on anything could prevent anything of that happening.

> To avoid to get bad things in the language, there is a clause in the
> voting RFC requiring a larger majority. This clause applies for
> language changes and makes perfectly sense. In a way it should solve
> the core vs the world problem.

Majority does not solve anything. Being majority doesn't automatically 
makes it right. I do not believe right technical decision can be taken 
by measuring majority in votes, especially if we're talking about giving 
equal voice to everybody regardless of they level of informed-ness in 
the details of the project, understanding of the project and commitment 
to the project. I understand that people want their voices to be heard, 
and this is welcome, but tell me how many projects you know that anybody 
can come there and demand features and changes and have the same vote as 
core project developers without even being a contributor? Can you do it 
in any of major open source projects?
-- 
Stanislav Malyshev, Software Architect
SugarCRM: http://www.sugarcrm.com/
(408)454-6900 ext. 227