Newsgroups: php.internals Path: news.php.net Xref: news.php.net php.internals:56212 Return-Path: Mailing-List: contact internals-help@lists.php.net; run by ezmlm Delivered-To: mailing list internals@lists.php.net Received: (qmail 21624 invoked from network); 10 Nov 2011 04:51:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lists.php.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 10 Nov 2011 04:51:26 -0000 Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com smtp.mail=rasmus@lerdorf.com; spf=permerror; sender-id=unknown Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com header.from=rasmus@lerdorf.com; sender-id=unknown Received-SPF: error (pb1.pair.com: domain lerdorf.com from 209.85.210.44 cause and error) X-PHP-List-Original-Sender: rasmus@lerdorf.com X-Host-Fingerprint: 209.85.210.44 mail-pz0-f44.google.com Received: from [209.85.210.44] ([209.85.210.44:56576] helo=mail-pz0-f44.google.com) by pb1.pair.com (ecelerity 2.1.1.9-wez r(12769M)) with ESMTP id F8/00-21183-C485BBE4 for ; Wed, 09 Nov 2011 23:51:25 -0500 Received: by pzk33 with SMTP id 33so2036356pzk.3 for ; Wed, 09 Nov 2011 20:51:21 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.68.39.34 with SMTP id m2mr11129022pbk.75.1320900681579; Wed, 09 Nov 2011 20:51:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.200.5] (c-50-131-44-225.hsd1.ca.comcast.net. [50.131.44.225]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id lk8sm18503128pbb.4.2011.11.09.20.51.19 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 09 Nov 2011 20:51:20 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4EBB5847.50400@lerdorf.com> Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 20:51:19 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20110929 Thunderbird/7.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "guilhermeblanco@gmail.com" CC: Stas Malyshev , Nikita Popov , PHP Internals References: <4EBADCE4.9030702@sugarcrm.com> <4EBAF5D8.40608@sugarcrm.com> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4a1pre Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] who can vote From: rasmus@lerdorf.com (Rasmus Lerdorf) On 11/09/2011 07:01 PM, guilhermeblanco@gmail.com wrote: > My short version of this entire email is very simple question. Is PHP > meritocracy based? It is. > I want to highlight another RFC where I saw the before mentioned > meritocracy fallen into the cracks. > http://wiki.php.net/rfc/shortsyntaxforarrays Except that is a terrible example because that was eventually accepted. But yes, meritocracy means that the core developers have more say than userland folks and if 14 active core developers vote against something and 9 vote for, as per your example, then there is enough reason to not implement it. Or, as was the case with this feature, it just took a bit longer to get more core folks on board before it could be implemented. > If PHP is a meritocracy based language, I > thought that everyone have equally voice over it. I think you are misunderstanding what a meritocracy means. It means exactly the opposite of everyone having an equal voice. The people who do the bulk of the work on the code have the most say over their own code. And that doesn't make it a hobby, that makes it an open source project created by volunteers. From your example of the short syntax for arrays. If you check the original voting, I voted for the feature. If this was a dictatorship and not a meritocracy then I would have just pushed ahead and implemented the feature, but with 14 high-merit votes against it I obviously couldn't do that. So yes, the conclusion stands. If a majority of core developers are against a feature, it really doesn't matter how many userland people want something. Core people don't vote against things for the fun of it. They tend to have legitimate concerns. You may not agree with those concerns, but that doesn't mean they aren't real and they are coming from the perspective of someone who has a lot more experience than other voters for a feature. Now, the way to change that dynamic is for more people to become involved and help with the core of the language. Help with fixing bugs, fixing test cases, reviewing bug reports and through this effort become core contributors who can then vote the next time the feature is brought up and push it through at that point. -Rasmus