Newsgroups: php.internals
Path: news.php.net
Xref: news.php.net php.internals:53299
Mailing-List: contact internals-help@lists.php.net; run by ezmlm
Received-SPF: pass (pb1.pair.com: domain gmail.com designates 209.85.218.42 as permitted sender)
DomainKey-Status: bad
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws;
        d=gmail.com; s=gamma;
        h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to
         :cc:content-type;
        b=AJNykkDSdD6JbnZuHsERoaVFcTc/rF97LU8Q0LbhXJ5TEzTty6WtyUlacgD4q1UmVh
         7DzBcfJny6kYEJR/H2y9/BxaHVfxcp31CXNvT6btoT8x5EAhDEhIRMTGS4CFBrOrKzOe
         xQtJo4Ih2xXwQ72ZmjoWOsLMl6rvJ31rvqTwE=
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <8757232E56758B42B2EE4F9D2CA019C9014D10DC@US-EX2.zend.net>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1106071203020.5202@whisky> <8757232E56758B42B2EE4F9D2CA019C9014CE547@US-EX2.zend.net>
 <BANLkTinLd8svjZYGYOoc=qyxViFfapn=nA@mail.gmail.com> <8757232E56758B42B2EE4F9D2CA019C9014D10DC@US-EX2.zend.net>
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 21:36:03 -0500
Message-ID: <BANLkTikj7NG6uig5mSB78Xs9m-8vU0dZuA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Andi Gutmans <andi@zend.com>
Cc: Pierre Joye <pierre.php@gmail.com>, Derick Rethans <derick@php.net>, 
	PHP Developers Mailing List <internals@lists.php.net>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6475b5a88651a04a5cb228c
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Give the Language a Rest motion (fwd)
From: dukeofgaming@gmail.com (dukeofgaming)

--0016e6475b5a88651a04a5cb228c
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

I think that =97in any context=97 the "if it aint broke don't fix it" is a =
very
depressing attitude to have, and a very wrong one in any open source
community.

If the signal to noise ratio is the problem, I think its better to focus on
that problem, not shutting down the signal. If PHP is a resource crunched
project, I think its better to focus on that problem, not rejecting feature
requests.

(I might appear as impertinent with what I'm going to say, but bear with me=
,
I'm being well-intentioned and mean no offense; just want to be honest).

Regarding the signal to noise ratio, I have one question: how did traits ge=
t
accepted?, having seen the kind of conversations in the lists it makes
almost no sense to me how something so "radical" and complex could make its
way to PHP so quickly and a simple and convenient thing like a short array
syntax cannot, and something so basic as annotations raises so much
pointless (just not to say ignorant) debate. Was it the to-the-point RFC an=
d
solid patch?, was it that the conversations were just on another level so
not anyone could just say =97or troll=97 "traits are no solution! *spit*, l=
ets
do aspects instead!". I know it took some time, but while lurking the lists
IIRC I never saw any opposition to traits... could anyone tell me what was
the magic behind this?, could it be repeated?.

Regarding resources, I think this is one of the main things rendering the
community unhealthy (at least it feels like that to me) and I even feel
bitterness in the air. I think that the definite solution to this is a DVCS
like git and hosting the code at github, or like mercurial and hosting the
code at bitbucket, please don't be angered at this suggestion (as I know th=
e
switch to SVN is a fairly recent one), you can ask around SVN geeks that
went the distributed way and they will tell you things, wonderful things of
how they don't know how could they could endure that much with that in thei=
r
project, and if its an open source one, how much the switch has done in
favor of contributions.

Regardless of everything, I like that the PHP community has so much passion
and energy, sometimes in a not constructive way, but that is a good problem
to have in my opinion, really, don't take it for granted, it just needs a
little direction.

Best regards,

David Vega

On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 8:46 PM, Andi Gutmans <andi@zend.com> wrote:

> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Pierre Joye [mailto:pierre.php@gmail.com]
> >Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2011 2:33 AM
> >To: Andi Gutmans
> >Cc: Derick Rethans; PHP Developers Mailing List
> >Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Give the Language a Rest motion (fwd)
> >
> >On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 7:02 AM, Andi Gutmans <andi@zend.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Hence my suggestion to bundle MongoDB extension and possibly work on
> >additional extensions. Some of my suggestions probably rightfully didn't
> get
> >much interest such as Thrift.
> >
> >See my comment in your other thread and below.
> >
> >> Maybe we should consider making a list of extensions we think could be
> >beneficial and the new mentorship program can actually help deliver some
> of
> >them?
> >
> >I do not thnk it is a good thing to begin a discussion about this exact
> topic and
> >then totally ignore it.
> >
>
> I think it got lost in the very long and varying discussions. Will dig up
> and take a look. I had a couple of hectic weeks.
>
> >I also think that it is somehow wrong to post something asking to do not
> propose
> >new things when we finally have more people involved in proposals and
> >discussions. Maybe that's just me me but I do think that the main proble=
m
> we
> >have (besides the ones we identified and try to fix right now) is the
> complete
> >lack of open discussions about possible new features, in this list with
> new or
> >existing contributors.
>
> I did not say we should not propose or have discussions (I am in favor of
> adding [] for arrays for example). But I am saying the bias should be not=
 to
> include new language functionality unless it has very broad appeal & seri=
ous
> upside impact. The bias should be against feature creep.
>
> Andi
>
> >
> >--
> >Pierre
> >
> >@pierrejoye | http://blog.thepimp.net | http://www.libgd.org
>
> --
> PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List
> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>
>

--0016e6475b5a88651a04a5cb228c--