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Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2011 14:28:25 -0700
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To: dukeofgaming <dukeofgaming@gmail.com>, PHP Internals <internals@lists.php.net>
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Voting Process (was: [PHP-DEV] Re: Voting does not
 belong on the wiki! (Was: [PHP-DEV] 5.4 moving forward))
From: chadfulton@gmail.com (Chad Fulton)

On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 12:27 PM, dukeofgaming <dukeofgaming@gmail.com> wrot=
e:
>
> I have a little proposition here.
>
> I'm not =97at least currently=97 known for any app or framework, but I'd =
like my
> voice to count, that is, if and only if the rest of the community thinks =
I
> make sane arguments that are worth considering.
>
> I'm perfectly aware that the fame one could gain from taking production c=
ode
> to visible success should be an indicator of an educated opinion, however=
, I
> think this might lead to a closed group who can vote, and I like the
> openness of this community, even if the general process is chaotic, it st=
ill
> gets the warm and fuzzy feeling of an open source community.
>
> OTOH, if a completely open group's votes were all considered, the final
> decision could just end up being a matter of numbers outnumbering other
> numbers. If I get it right, this is the current problem.
>
> So my proposal is that the voting privilege could be given on the basis o=
f a
> *web of trust*, and if I'm not mistaken this is a little like what the
> concept of karma works here (I'm fairly new here). Not sure if there shou=
ld
> be a voting to elect voters or if it could/should be something more lax, =
but
> I don't think the requirement to vote should be fame.

I'm similarly placed (as are many here I think), in the sense that I
have not done any internals work and I am not one of the lead devs for
a well-known project.

Much as I think my opinions are great, I don't believe we should have
a vote or, if we do, that it shouldn't count for as much as others',
for the following reasons:

- Long-term commitment: we want people voting who (1) know the history
of past PHP discussions on topics and why they were rejected or
postponed, (2) understand the "PHP way", and (3) have shown commitment
to *maintaining* PHP

- Perspective: developing *with* PHP is not the same as developing
*for* PHP internals. Feasibility, interoperability, maintenance
concerns, and more are things that, as long as I've read the list, are
often misunderstood or downplayed by people who develop *with* PHP and
want a shiny new feature (including me).

- Unified vision: we want people who are taking the whole PHP picture
into account to be the ones doing the voting. Much of the volume on
the list is very narrowly focused - this is a good thing for
discussion of specific features, but a bad thing for picking which
features to include in PHP.

So, I would advocate a "white list" of core devs for formal voting (of
which, for example, I would not be a member). I think this mailing
list has grown sufficiently that "public opinion" can be gauged from
here: everyone can write their opinion without giving them voting
privileges.

If you haven't already, I recommend you read the (incredibly long)
discussions from last summer on type-hinting. They convinced me that
sometimes a feature that sounds good is simply not a good fit for PHP
for reasons which many did not (still do not?) understand.

Chad Fulton