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Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2011 19:23:26 +0200
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To: Philip Olson <philip@roshambo.org>
Cc: Stas Malyshev <smalyshev@sugarcrm.com>, Derick Rethans <derick@php.net>, 
	PHP Internals <internals@lists.php.net>
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Voting does not belong on the wiki! (Was: [PHP-DEV]
 5.4 moving forward)
From: pierre.php@gmail.com (Pierre Joye)

hi Philip,

On Sat, Jun 4, 2011 at 3:29 PM, Philip Olson <philip@roshambo.org> wrote:

> =A0- RFC: Request For Comments

Thanks for the reminder. But RFC got approved at some point as well.
See the numerous W3C RFCs for some known examples.

> And while doing so, not revert to a vote (RFV?) simply because discussing=
 a topic can get messy.

What got messy? That instead of simply rejecting the RFC instead of
constantly adding new ideas to the stack. It is a perfectly valid flow
to block a RFC because it is considered as not well designed, not
desired or simple not fully compliant. It happened many times in php
in the past and in other projects as well.

> Voting has clear winners and losers with potential loss for improvements.=
 That and you must then worry about who can and cannot vote (i.e., non-incl=
usive community). It's rare that we've required a formal vote, so I fear we=
 will now implement voting at inappropriate times rather than allow a conse=
nsus to be reached.

I'm sorry to not be powerful enough to achieve my ultimate goal, have
the most open processes and decissions in the OSS world within PHP.
That is, to include the communities in the decision processes and not
only to propose things.

Now you can keep arguing that voting is pointless, unfair, that
consensus can be reached easily, etc. etc. What we see is a total
different picture which is more related to dictatorial decisions or
puchists. None of these ways are good.

Cheers,
--=20
Pierre

@pierrejoye | http://blog.thepimp.net | http://www.libgd.org