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Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 18:09:36 -0400
Thread-Topic: [PHP-DEV] RFC: Short syntax for Arrays (redux)
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Subject: RE: [PHP-DEV] RFC: Short syntax for Arrays (redux)
From: johncrenshaw@priacta.com (John Crenshaw)

For small linear arrays, neither format is "more readable" but for even mil=
dly complex structures, there is a clear difference. Consider the following=
 Mongo query:

$query =3D array(
    'time'=3D>array('$and'=3D>array(
        array('$gt'=3D>strtotime('-1 day')),
        array('$lt'=3D>time()),
    )),
    '$or'=3D>array(
        array('foo'=3D>'bar'),
        array('hello'=3D>'world')
    )
);

Vs. the JSON form:
$query =3D {
    time: {'$and': [
        {'$gt': strtotime('-1 day')},
        {'$lt': time()},
    ]},
    '$or': [
        {foo: 'bar'},
        {hello: 'world'}
    ]
};

Because of the clear readability difference I'll take anything, but JSON wo=
uld be much better than just an "array shorthand".

John Crenshaw
Priacta, Inc.

-----Original Message-----
From: Anthony Ferrara [mailto:ircmaxell@gmail.com]=20
Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2011 5:18 PM
To: PHP internals
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: Short syntax for Arrays (redux)

Personally, I think focusing on a character savings is the wrong
reason to take on any problem.  I don't care how long it takes for me
to type code.  I don't care how much extra hdd space it takes.  But
what I do care about is how readable it is.

To me, the array shortcut syntax is pointless.  Do you really mean to
tell me that `[1, 2]` is more readable/easier to understand than
`array(1,2)`?  To me, it's about a wash.

However, the object shortcut syntax is a major win.  For example:

$person =3D new stdClass();
$person->city =3D 'ogden';
$person->state =3D 'ut';
$perspn->country =3D 'usa';
$person->favoriteNumbers =3D array(4, 12, 37, 42);
$person->somethingWithNumbers();
$person->unluckyNumbers =3D array(6, 13, 21);
$person->likesPhp =3D 'very much so';

vs

$person =3D  { 'name' =3D> 'Justin',
   'city' =3D> 'ogden',
   'state' =3D> 'ut',
   'country' =3D> 'usa',
   'favoriteNumbers' =3D> [ 4, 12, 37, 42],
   'unluckyNumbers' =3D> [ 6, 13, 21],
   'likesPhp' =3D> 'very much so'
}

Did you notice what happened there?  There's two differences.  Try to
find them.  Neither would be possible with the shortcut syntax.

Now, the only reason I would personally support the array shortcut is
if it was an implementation of JSON.  I know that's not on the table
here, but that's the only benefit I can see to implementing a shortcut
for arrays (that would save 5 characters per instance).

Just my $0.02...

Anthony

On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 5:02 PM, Justin Carmony <justin@justincarmony.com> w=
rote:
> To address the soapbox:
>
> Its not just to reduce the five characters at the beginning, but when you=
 have more complex structures as well. There was already a great example sh=
own (http://paste.roguecoders.com/p/0747f2363c228a09e0ddd6f8ec52f2e8.html) =
of that. Also, if object support is added (which we need to add to the RFC)=
, you can cut down on a lot more verbose code, especially with objects.
>
> $person =3D { 'name' =3D> 'Justin',
> =A0 =A0'city' =3D> 'ogden',
> =A0 =A0'state' =3D> 'ut',
> =A0 =A0'country' =3D> 'usa',
> =A0 =A0'favoriteNumbers' =3D> [ 4, 12, 37, 42],
> =A0 =A0'unluckyNumbers' =3D> [ 6, 13, 21],
> =A0 =A0'likesPhp' =3D> 'very much so'
> };
>
> Characters: 192
>
> Current way:
>
> $person =3D new stdClass();
> $person->city =3D 'ogden';
> $person->state =3D 'ut';
> $person->country =3D 'usa';
> $person->favoriteNumbers =3D array(4, 12, 37, 42);
> $person->unluckyNumbers =3D array(6, 13, 21);
> $person->likesPhp =3D 'very much so';
>
> Characters: 229
>
> That is a 37 character difference. But the real driving factor is given P=
HP's lack of named parameter syntax, passing objects and arrays (or sometim=
es a mix, depending on the framework) is becoming very popular. So not only=
 do you save some typing just once, but if you use this pattern a lot, you =
save a lot of typing over your entire project. Also, when dealing with obje=
cts, I have to make sure I retype "person" correctly each time. If I don't,=
 I'll get a notice error. But with the new syntax, it'll throw a parsing er=
ror so I can know a lot quicker what my issue is.
>
> As for syntax highlighters, IDEs, books, etc all being outdated, first of=
f no one is suggesting to deprecate the array() function. So you will only =
use this new syntax if you choose to do so. Second, we broke syntax highlig=
hters, IDEs, and so forth when we introduced namespaces, and every IDE and =
syntax highlighter I used updated very quickly to support them. I'm assumin=
g the IDEs spent a great deal more time adding Namespacing support than it =
will to support a short syntax for arrays and objects.
>
> PHP has made short syntax for other things, such a if statement short cod=
es. Yet many books don't cover it, since it is one of those things you read=
 in the documentation later and decide "Do I want to use this?" No one is f=
orcing anyone to use (1 =3D=3D 1 ? true : false) type of if/then logic. The=
 same will work with the new syntax.
>
> My two cents.
>
> Justin
>
> On Jun 1, 2011, at 2:37 PM, Michael Shadle wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 1:01 PM, Pierre Joye <pierre.php@gmail.com> wrote=
:
>>
>>> I modified the vote page, pls move your votes to the desired syntax
>>> (or global -1)
>>
>> This is a good idea to group things like this.
>>
>> Back on the soapbox. All of this is just to reduce typing "array" (5
>> characters) before things?
>>
>> Old:
>> $foo =3D array('a' =3D> 'b', 'c' =3D> 'd');
>>
>> More than likely new:
>> $foo =3D ['a' =3D> 'b', 'c' =3D> 'd'];
>>
>> 5 character difference for each array being saved. That's it. At the
>> expense of syntax highlighters, IDEs, books, all becoming outdated and
>> need to be updated. For a language construct that has been around for
>> what, 10 years?
>>
>> Oh, and for anyone desiring a ":" for this new shorthand, why stop at
>> array shorthand. Why not change this from:
>> foreach($foo as $key =3D> $val)
>>
>> To:
>> foreach($foo as $key: $val)
>>
>> That would save one character for each array iteration like that.
>>
>> Also - if we're worried about saving characters and shorthand why not
>> just remove the "$" language construct? That's a LOT of keystrokes. In
>> my WordPress install, that's 75,412 characters saved. Versus 6,960
>> "array(" matches, which would save 34,800 characters.
>>
>> These were quick examples from a coworker. Just another PHP user who
>> said "wait why would they make another way to express an array?"
>>
>> --
>> PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List
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>>
>
>

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