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Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 15:02:34 -0600
Cc: Pierre Joye <pierre.php@gmail.com>,
 PHP internals <internals@lists.php.net>
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To: Michael Shadle <mike503@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: Short syntax for Arrays (redux)
From: justin@justincarmony.com (Justin Carmony)

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To address the soapbox:

Its not just to reduce the five characters at the beginning, but when =
you have more complex structures as well. There was already a great =
example shown =
(http://paste.roguecoders.com/p/0747f2363c228a09e0ddd6f8ec52f2e8.html) =
of that. Also, if object support is added (which we need to add to the =
RFC), you can cut down on a lot more verbose code, especially with =
objects.

$person =3D { 'name' =3D> 'Justin',
    'city' =3D> 'ogden',
    'state' =3D> 'ut',
    'country' =3D> 'usa',
    'favoriteNumbers' =3D> [ 4, 12, 37, 42],
    'unluckyNumbers' =3D> [ 6, 13, 21],
    'likesPhp' =3D> 'very much so'
};

Characters: 192

Current way:

$person =3D new stdClass();
$person->city =3D 'ogden';
$person->state =3D 'ut';
$person->country =3D 'usa';
$person->favoriteNumbers =3D array(4, 12, 37, 42);
$person->unluckyNumbers =3D array(6, 13, 21);
$person->likesPhp =3D 'very much so';

Characters: 229

That is a 37 character difference. But the real driving factor is given =
PHP's lack of named parameter syntax, passing objects and arrays (or =
sometimes a mix, depending on the framework) is becoming very popular. =
So not only do you save some typing just once, but if you use this =
pattern a lot, you save a lot of typing over your entire project. Also, =
when dealing with objects, I have to make sure I retype "person" =
correctly each time. If I don't, I'll get a notice error. But with the =
new syntax, it'll throw a parsing error so I can know a lot quicker what =
my issue is.

As for syntax highlighters, IDEs, books, etc all being outdated, first =
off no one is suggesting to deprecate the array() function. So you will =
only use this new syntax if you choose to do so. Second, we broke syntax =
highlighters, IDEs, and so forth when we introduced namespaces, and =
every IDE and syntax highlighter I used updated very quickly to support =
them. I'm assuming the IDEs spent a great deal more time adding =
Namespacing support than it will to support a short syntax for arrays =
and objects.

PHP has made short syntax for other things, such a if statement short =
codes. Yet many books don't cover it, since it is one of those things =
you read in the documentation later and decide "Do I want to use this?" =
No one is forcing anyone to use (1 =3D=3D 1 ? true : false) type of =
if/then logic. The same will work with the new syntax.

My two cents.

Justin

On Jun 1, 2011, at 2:37 PM, Michael Shadle wrote:

> On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 1:01 PM, Pierre Joye <pierre.php@gmail.com> =
wrote:
>=20
>> I modified the vote page, pls move your votes to the desired syntax
>> (or global -1)
>=20
> This is a good idea to group things like this.
>=20
> Back on the soapbox. All of this is just to reduce typing "array" (5
> characters) before things?
>=20
> Old:
> $foo =3D array('a' =3D> 'b', 'c' =3D> 'd');
>=20
> More than likely new:
> $foo =3D ['a' =3D> 'b', 'c' =3D> 'd'];
>=20
> 5 character difference for each array being saved. That's it. At the
> expense of syntax highlighters, IDEs, books, all becoming outdated and
> need to be updated. For a language construct that has been around for
> what, 10 years?
>=20
> Oh, and for anyone desiring a ":" for this new shorthand, why stop at
> array shorthand. Why not change this from:
> foreach($foo as $key =3D> $val)
>=20
> To:
> foreach($foo as $key: $val)
>=20
> That would save one character for each array iteration like that.
>=20
> Also - if we're worried about saving characters and shorthand why not
> just remove the "$" language construct? That's a LOT of keystrokes. In
> my WordPress install, that's 75,412 characters saved. Versus 6,960
> "array(" matches, which would save 34,800 characters.
>=20
> These were quick examples from a coworker. Just another PHP user who
> said "wait why would they make another way to express an array?"
>=20
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>=20


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