Newsgroups: php.internals Path: news.php.net Xref: news.php.net php.internals:52626 Return-Path: Mailing-List: contact internals-help@lists.php.net; run by ezmlm Delivered-To: mailing list internals@lists.php.net Received: (qmail 94050 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2011 06:04:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lists.php.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 1 Jun 2011 06:04:26 -0000 Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com smtp.mail=smalyshev@sugarcrm.com; spf=pass; sender-id=pass Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com header.from=smalyshev@sugarcrm.com; sender-id=pass Received-SPF: pass (pb1.pair.com: domain sugarcrm.com designates 207.97.245.123 as permitted sender) X-PHP-List-Original-Sender: smalyshev@sugarcrm.com X-Host-Fingerprint: 207.97.245.123 smtp123.iad.emailsrvr.com Linux 2.6 Received: from [207.97.245.123] ([207.97.245.123:49604] helo=smtp123.iad.emailsrvr.com) by pb1.pair.com (ecelerity 2.1.1.9-wez r(12769M)) with ESMTP id 57/B3-02790-866D5ED4 for ; Wed, 01 Jun 2011 02:04:25 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp42.relay.iad1a.emailsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id D6EE514812A; Wed, 1 Jun 2011 02:04:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: OK Received: by smtp42.relay.iad1a.emailsrvr.com (Authenticated sender: smalyshev-AT-sugarcrm.com) with ESMTPSA id 3462314804A; Wed, 1 Jun 2011 02:04:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4DE5D665.4020106@sugarcrm.com> Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 23:04:21 -0700 Organization: SugarCRM User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; en-US; rv:1.9.2.17) Gecko/20110414 Thunderbird/3.1.10 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael Shadle CC: PHP internals References: <4DE5368A.6050603@moonspot.net> <2BFFEAC1-395E-4101-9452-002E63DCFD91@seancoates.com> <4DE55AB7.9050206@lerdorf.com> <4DE55CDA.302@sugarcrm.com> <4DE5666A.3080506@lerdorf.com> <4DE5CAEA.4030805@sugarcrm.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: Short syntax for Arrays (redux) From: smalyshev@sugarcrm.com (Stas Malyshev) Hi! > If a handful of "experienced people" decided to go forward with my > crackpot idea above, would you be in support, just because they are? No, but I wouldn't say that nobody needs it. I'd say it's a bad idea despite somebody needing it, for reasons so and so. > I figured it was tough, based on the amount of effort/time people > spent. Sad to see that it seems abandoned though. Well, you know, if somebody has time/energy to pick it up - go ahead. But people that worked on it felt they are not getting the result they hoped for, so they cut their losses and moved on. The beauty of open source is that if anybody wants to pick it up it's still out there. > IMHO, JSON-style syntax is *not* as readable as PHP array syntax. It's > shorthanding something that is pretty short as well. That's obviously a matter of taste - I consider it more readable, for example. For elephant's sake, we're being unfavorably compared to Perl on readability! :) But seriously, if I alone felt that, I'd suck it up - as I did when it failed last time. But this time more people feel that way - so maybe it's time for a change. People change, experiences change, tastes change, languages change. > is *unnecessary* as nothing is broken. I can only imagine the poor PHP > developers bastardizing this so badly it takes hours to decypher what > they are trying to do. I think while you point on excessive shortcutting is completely valid, in this example it is not excessive, as [] array syntax is very common (Perl, Python, Ruby, JS, D, etc.) and recognizable. -- Stanislav Malyshev, Software Architect SugarCRM: http://www.sugarcrm.com/ (408)454-6900 ext. 227