Newsgroups: php.internals Path: news.php.net Xref: news.php.net php.internals:52622 Return-Path: Mailing-List: contact internals-help@lists.php.net; run by ezmlm Delivered-To: mailing list internals@lists.php.net Received: (qmail 83128 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2011 05:15:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lists.php.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 1 Jun 2011 05:15:27 -0000 Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com smtp.mail=smalyshev@sugarcrm.com; spf=pass; sender-id=pass Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com header.from=smalyshev@sugarcrm.com; sender-id=pass Received-SPF: pass (pb1.pair.com: domain sugarcrm.com designates 207.97.245.163 as permitted sender) X-PHP-List-Original-Sender: smalyshev@sugarcrm.com X-Host-Fingerprint: 207.97.245.163 smtp163.iad.emailsrvr.com Linux 2.6 Received: from [207.97.245.163] ([207.97.245.163:50404] helo=smtp163.iad.emailsrvr.com) by pb1.pair.com (ecelerity 2.1.1.9-wez r(12769M)) with ESMTP id 58/A1-02790-EEAC5ED4 for ; Wed, 01 Jun 2011 01:15:27 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp56.relay.iad1a.emailsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 16E683D835D; Wed, 1 Jun 2011 01:15:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: OK Received: by smtp56.relay.iad1a.emailsrvr.com (Authenticated sender: smalyshev-AT-sugarcrm.com) with ESMTPSA id 7A1023D83AA; Wed, 1 Jun 2011 01:15:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4DE5CAEA.4030805@sugarcrm.com> Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 22:15:22 -0700 Organization: SugarCRM User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; en-US; rv:1.9.2.17) Gecko/20110414 Thunderbird/3.1.10 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael Shadle CC: PHP internals References: <4DE5368A.6050603@moonspot.net> <2BFFEAC1-395E-4101-9452-002E63DCFD91@seancoates.com> <4DE55AB7.9050206@lerdorf.com> <4DE55CDA.302@sugarcrm.com> <4DE5666A.3080506@lerdorf.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: Short syntax for Arrays (redux) From: smalyshev@sugarcrm.com (Stas Malyshev) Hi! > I agree, it would be a break a lot of code. But I'd rather see some > fundamental changes at that level (call it PHP 6, make it not BC with > PHP 5.x or earlier), and remove the cruft and standardize on some of > the slop. Fundamental changes means "throw out your production code and start developing a new one". Guess how many PHP shops with existing code would be happy to do it. It's nice to rant about how PHP function are inconsistent and stuff, but no project was seriously impeded by it ever. At most it is mildly irritating. Huge BC break, on the other hand, would mean all major apps/libraries/frameworks become instantly not available, and who knows when they catch up. At this point, you might as well have a new language. > Shorter array syntax seems like an unnecessary addon, will create more Since many experienced people are supporting it, I'd think that while it seems unnecessary to you, it may seem otherwise for them. > I would help with the Unicode project if I could. I am not sure why it > was so tough, but I imagine people infinitely smarter than I am were Read this (esp. first answer): http://stackoverflow.com/q/6162484/214196 It's about Perl, but gives you an impression why it is so tough. > Making JSON style arrays seems stupid to me. When I look at a PHP > script I expect PHP syntax. Not stolen pieces from a bunch of other > languages (yes, some of it is that way already, but let's not keep the > trend going please?) Why not? If the pieces are good, stealing them is good. It's how progress happens - you "steal" good pieces and add couple of your own, and hope the result is good enough that somebody else would want to steal stuff from it :) -- Stanislav Malyshev, Software Architect SugarCRM: http://www.sugarcrm.com/ (408)454-6900 ext. 227