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In-Reply-To: <4DE5368A.6050603@moonspot.net>
Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 13:41:30 -0600
Cc: PHP internals <internals@lists.php.net>
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To: Brian Moon <brian@moonspot.net>
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: Short syntax for Arrays (redux)
From: justin@justincarmony.com (Justin Carmony)

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This is my first time posting to the mailing list, been lurking for a =
little while, but I would like to throw in my thoughts. I've written =
about the idea of PHP supporting JSON notation on my blog before =
(http://www.justincarmony.com/blog/2011/04/12/php-itch-to-scratch-object-n=
otation/), and I think it would be beneficial because:

- Frameworks and Libraries are becoming more verbose as they support =
more modular designs. The more PHP as a language can do to help =
developers make their frameworks less verbose (like supporting JSON like =
notations), the happier developers will be.=20

- Most developers are familiar with JSON, so the learning curve for this =
notation would be low.

- While short hand for arrays would be nice, some developers are moving =
to use objects more over arrays, so a shorthand that supports both =
arrays and objects would be great.

But the bottom line is I would love to help put together whatever is =
required for a new RFC, and do anything to help others who don't see the =
use for the short notation.

Justin Carmony


On May 31, 2011, at 12:42 PM, Brian Moon wrote:

> https://wiki.php.net/rfc/shortsyntaxforarrays
>=20
> Since this was brought again recently by Rasmus =
(http://markmail.org/message/fx3brcm4ekh645se) and on Twitter where =
several people including Andi chimed in on it and Ilia seemed to reverse =
his thoughts as well (with caveats), I thought I would start a real =
thread about it. The reason the RFC stalled was stated as:
>=20
> "This patch will not be accepted because slight majority of the core =
developers voted against. Though if you take a accumulated mean between =
core developers and userland votes seems to show the opposite it would =
be irresponsible to submit a patch witch is not supported or maintained =
in the long run."
>=20
> So, the PHP users want it, but too many PHP core devs did not want it =
or did not see the use of it. =46rom rereading the mailing list archive, =
most had the tone of "I don't see a reason for it." I was in that camp =
in 2003 when it first came up. However, with the emergence of JSON and =
systems that use JSON as an interface, this type of syntax would be most =
welcome in the day to day life of a PHP developer.
>=20
> I would prefer (as Rasmus pointed out) not to start a long discussion =
about it. Primarily I would be curious if anyone on the lists (from the =
RFC wiki page) below would like to change your vote or if you are not =
listed below and would like to be counted, that would be great too.
>=20
> PHP SVN account holder voters
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> Pro: Andrei Zmievski, Andi Gutmans, Pierre Joye, Rasmus Lerdorf, =
Stanislav Malyshev, Brian Moon, Kalle Sommer Nielsen, Edin Kadribasic
>=20
> Contra: Antony Dovgal, Derick Rethans, Jani Taskinen, Lokrain, Felipe =
Pena, Lukas Kahwe Smith, Marcus Boerger, David Soria Parra, Johannes =
Schl=FCter, Maciek Sokolewicz, Philip Olson, Ilia Alshanetsky, Daniel =
Brown, Jochem Maas, Hannes Magnusson, David Coallier
>=20
>=20
> Other voters
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> Pro: Sebastian Deutsch, Ryusuke Sekiyama, Stefan Marr, Alexey =
Zakhlestin, Carl P. Corliss, Darius Jahandarie, Giedrius D, Eric =
Coleman, Max Antonov, Mike Ford, Larry Garfield, Sam Barrow, Taylor Luk, =
Hans Ahlin, Karoly Negyesi, Guilherme Blanco, Jonathan-Bond Caron
>=20
> Contra: Geoffrey Sneddon, Tomi Kaistila, David Z=FChlke
>=20
>=20
> --=20
> Brian.
> http://brian.moonspot.net
>=20
> --=20
> PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List
> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>=20


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