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Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 05:00:20 -0500
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=8xr8oJiM_djJDeWk0L4AGaVjv9g@mail.gmail.com>
To: Rasmus Lerdorf <rasmus@lerdorf.com>
Cc: PHP internals <internals@lists.php.net>
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] annotations again
From: dukeofgaming@gmail.com (dukeofgaming)

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On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 4:30 AM, Rasmus Lerdorf <rasmus@lerdorf.com> wrote:

> On 05/11/2011 01:39 AM, dukeofgaming wrote:
>
>> The link doesn't work, but I'm assuming it is this one?:
>> https://wiki.php.net/todo
>>
>
> That was supposed to be wiki.php.net/rfc (iPad auto-correct messed it up)
>
>
I see. I have actually read most RFCs, but I do feel something is meesing.
Perhaps if RFCs were categorized by potential release in the wiki =97or
alternatively, an additional "Intented PHP version" field=97 then agreement=
s
coud get easier, because I don't see consistent PHP version information for
RFCs that could lead to an actual roadmap.


> I don't think we need to lower the participation bar further here. It
> doesn't take very long to find a threaded version of the list if that is
> what you think is holding people back. All the lists are here,
> http://php.markmail.org/search/ for example.


> But honestly, subscribing to a mailing list and watching it for a while
> before participating is not too much to ask from people who want to
> participate.
>
>
>  My suggestion for this =97and it would be a rather disruptive one, I kno=
w=97
>> is to move the lists to Google Groups, or at least create one or two as
>> an experiment, say: php-userland and php-dev.
>>
>
> We have such a user list already. Many of them actually, but the main one
> is php-general. Again, refer to the above link where you can see that
> php-general gets way more traffic than the internals list, so there is no
> lack of participation there.
>
>
I wholeheartedly agree, but sometimes it is the small details that lead
to dissuasion (e.g. having to look for the right/best mirror). In general
I've found Google Groups mailing lists more approachable/usable. I see now
that there are nice mirrors, but in general the mirror solution feels
fragmented. Just my opinion here.


>
>  BTW, Guilherme is an important stakeholder too, he has participated in
>> Doctrine2 annotation-related work:
>>
>
> Of course he is. But like I said, we need all the major stakeholders to
> reach some sort of agreement on large efforts like this.


How could we get them here?. I know there is no magical answer but if we do
need them here something must be done, right? (e.g. make the RFC more
appealing for technical debate?).


>
>
>  The way I see it, PHP has moved by inertia all these years, and it has
>> worked, but I think there are measures that could be taken to lead the
>> discussions towards a more productive path. For example, is there anyone
>> at all that does some kind of moderation?, and I don't mean the coercive
>> type, but the "hey guys, this seems off-topic, can you start this
>> discussion on another email thread?" type of moderation.
>>
>
> Of course. I've often sent private emails to people to politely suggest
> they take things offline and others regularly step in as well.
>

But, is there such a role/responsibility/structure within the community?,
and  I'm really not talking about hierarchy or bureaucracy, just that I've
seen it is important that there is someone that commits to such a role and
not just leave it to other's good will.

Best regards,

David

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