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Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 17:01:18 -0500
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To: Ferenc Kovacs <info@tyrael.hu>
Cc: "guilhermeblanco@gmail.com" <guilhermeblanco@gmail.com>, Rasmus Lerdorf <rasmus@lerdorf.com>, 
	Stas Malyshev <smalyshev@sugarcrm.com>, PHP Internals <internals@lists.php.net>
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] 5.4 again
From: dukeofgaming@gmail.com (dukeofgaming)

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On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 12:44 PM, Ferenc Kovacs <info@tyrael.hu> wrote:

> >
> >
> > > That's simply not true. But just because one group of users feel
> strongly
> > > about something doesn't mean it should go in. There has to be some
> level
> > of
> > > curation or we end up with every feature under the sun resulting in a
> > huge
> > > mess.
> >
> > Are you sure?
> > Please take a look at every topic defined on wiki page. Is there ANY
> > topic to be discussed that came from userland?
> > If you say yes, please point me to the thread. What I clearly see
> > there is that every feature defined there came from users with php-src
> > karma.
> >
>
> there is at least one, mine
>
> but I also think that the core devs and the php userland/community is too
> far away, we would need more people from the userland to contribute to th=
e
> development of the php language.
>
> http://www.slideshare.net/andreizm/the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-what-hap=
pened-to-unicode-and-php-6
> <
> http://www.slideshare.net/andreizm/the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-what-hap=
pened-to-unicode-and-php-6
> >=93Because
> it=92s nearly impossible toparticipate on Internals if yourpoo-throwing a=
rm
> isn=92t strong.=94 =97 @coates
> =93Those with talent, competence, energy,and good ideas over a period of =
time
> - and who outlast the rest - tend to be the main drivers behind
> PHPdevelopment.=94  =97 @a
>
> Tyrael
>

Hi,

After having some experience participating in other open-source communities=
,
specially Joomla (but also Mootools, Doctrine and Symfony), my first
impression when subscribing and reading this list was: "wow, its hostile",
and I automatically refrained from wanting to participate and chose just to
observe for the meantime.

I know every community is different, but, even if a single person states
something that might look like a problem it is an indicator that you might
have it.

I think the PHP community could benefit from a process like Python's PEP
Workflow: http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0001/#pep-work-flow.

Personal attacks achieve nothing, and contributing to open-source is MORE
than contributing code, and even if you do contribute, it doesn't look like
it is even an automatic way to get the needed attention. I've seen Guilherm=
e
post several times asking for feedback (i.e. building upon his work, not
just criticizing him) and I have never seen it. I don't think Guilherme
loves spending his afternoons advancing in a patch without the slightest
sense of community direction.

Being brutally honest, looks to me that this generalized attitude/culture
might actually be scaring willing devs away, and the community itself needs
some kind of direction. Here is a recommended watch:

O'Reilly MySQL CE 2010: Jono Bacon, "The Engines Of Community":
http://blip.tv/file/3495291

Best regards,

David

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