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Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 14:44:24 -0300
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=0OFHjfSyv3w+3f5+gcPVV7beoeA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Andi Gutmans <andi@zend.com>
Cc: Marcelo Gornstein <marcelog@gmail.com>, Stas Malyshev <smalyshev@sugarcrm.com>, 
	PHP Internals <internals@lists.php.net>
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] annotations again
From: guilhermeblanco@gmail.com ("guilhermeblanco@gmail.com")

Hi all,

It's funny how far a simple discussion can reach.
I'm not advocating that an specific feature should go in or if not,
stimulate hate on developers.

Quoting what Richard and Derick posted, it's open source.
Any help from any front is very welcome. All I want is a place where
users (the entire php userland) can see what was discussed and the
results of it.
IIRC, open source is about community driven development. I don't see a
single thread message that pointed to a mature discussion about
feature A or B. All I saw was personal feelings about the inclusion of
feature A.

I'm a really pro supporter of Annotations in PHP, I also worked on an
Annotations patch for you. The first time I got a mature feedback to
turn the patch more PHP compatible, I agreed with php dev and worked
on changes to it. As soon as I published the patch updated with more
ideas and stable code, all I got was "Oh, come'on, this thread
again!".
None ever discussed this and you're (IMHO) saying no without even
looking at the patch. I can certain say that you don't even looked at
it because Richard (on the other thread) said that I could perfectly
have helped you writing C code. If he have ever clicked on link I
pointed out, he could clearly see that it's C patch fully tested and
compatible with latest php trunk.

So, please stop saying "no" to every feature request that comes in and
start to discuss the actual impact of each feature.
It's not because the feature came from userland that it doesn't have
any structure/design behind. It took months of planning and
structuring how it could be. All I need is someone that is not rude
and give me some clear feedback about possible enhancements that could
be done to be merged into php source code.

Thanks.

On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 2:22 PM, Andi Gutmans <andi@zend.com> wrote:
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Marcelo Gornstein [mailto:marcelog@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 10:20 AM
>> To: Stas Malyshev
>> Cc: guilhermeblanco@gmail.com; PHP Internals
>> Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] annotations again
>>
>> mm i don't remember saying anything like that :) i dont want to start an
>> argument here, but maybe you'd like to take things less personal and re-=
read
>> my post.
>>
>> anyway, i think it's time to stop just saying "no", and really collabora=
te with
>> what the community is suggesting (and already
>> propsed) in order to bring this into php (5.4 or whatever).
>
> I absolutely agree we should be getting input from the various communitie=
s whether that's ZF, Symphony, Drupal, etc.. I do feel we get quite a bit o=
f if it's not enough it should keep coming with very clear proposals. It'd =
also help if the frameworks would collaborate on such proposals. I know our=
 ZF team has collaborated with other framework teams on a variety of fronts=
.
> I do think this group does take clear proposals seriously but it's also i=
mportant to remember that there has to be a strong bias to avoid feature cr=
eep and really focus on what's critical and not nice-to-have.
> There are proposals that come up time and time again like operator overlo=
ading which just makes me cringe...
>
> Andi
>
>



--=20
Guilherme Blanco
Mobile: +55 (16) 9215-8480
MSN: guilhermeblanco@hotmail.com
S=C3=A3o Paulo - SP/Brazil