Newsgroups: php.internals
Path: news.php.net
Xref: news.php.net php.internals:50816
Mailing-List: contact internals-help@lists.php.net; run by ezmlm
Received-SPF: error (pb1.pair.com: domain basnetworks.net from 208.97.132.83 cause and error)
DomainKey-Status: good
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=basnetworks.net; h=message-id
	:in-reply-to:references:date:subject:from:to:cc:mime-version
	:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; q=dns; s=
	basnetworks.net; b=CNCdOZekCxpLILRe91XpPieKEbc6b2WJqnCqsgf+IZT0n
	3OID+aoMiO717wWHofwqu+LyE2K26hddxUxvmgJHpujsASQCB0R+cc4FANmW9pdf
	mTKDi/ePIFfYJu7Nli5JWtmTDscBIC4Y8B+gGB5nVmPFV7YvOSQ61yM/mqxapo=
Message-ID: <7dec3eef8f1763c0245a67c29a4ba369.squirrel@webmail.basnetworks.net>
In-Reply-To: <150497B4-DCA3-4042-BE64-6EA6C4C1A0A4@stefan-marr.de>
References:
    <ae7aa0536c47a2ac725222d49918183f.squirrel@webmail.basnetworks.net>
    <003601cb8fd0$f6494e80$e2dbeb80$@com> <4CF3B855.5010406@sugarcrm.com>
    <003401cb8fee$1be39840$53aac8c0$@com>
    <2450924ae03481f5b1382a7f00e5743d.squirrel@webmail.basnetworks.net>
    <4CF50245.5020807@sugarcrm.com>
    <ed0a2b6089e32bc3def3c14a1f510246.squirrel@webmail.basnetworks.net>
    <4CF5118B.2030300@sugarcrm.com>
    <1faa4c3db62771335db714507ac2adfa.squirrel@webmail.basnetworks.net>
    <6EC3583E-E7B7-431D-B544-82135A33E351@stefan-marr.de>
    <abcfef435c883db25046806037ba1624.squirrel@webmail.basnetworks.net>
    <150497B4-DCA3-4042-BE64-6EA6C4C1A0A4@stefan-marr.de>
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 09:13:31 -0500
To: "Stefan Marr" <php@stefan-marr.de>
Cc: "Stas Malyshev" <smalyshev@sugarcrm.com>,
 "internals@lists.php.net" <internals@lists.php.net>
User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.21
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: C-sharp style property get/set syntax for PHP
From: president@basnetworks.net

Hi Stefan,

>> Unfortunately I find that to be one of the major downfalls of PHP.  It
>> sometimes disregards defacto standards that are set across the entire
>> industry, which causes a lot of frustration for new programmers.
>> Sometimes the functionality PHP adds by going its own way is worth it,
>> but
>> often it is just a confusing mess.  Thats just my opinion though, YMMV=
.
>
> Still, if it is not consistent in itself it is worse than not following
> certain designs which make sense for other languages only.

Yes, I would agree with that.


>>>> isset() in the way you suggest would just be confusing.  It would
>>>> allow is
>>>> to say that a property does not exist, when in fact it does exist.
>>>> This is not logical.
>>> From the docu: isset =97 Determine if a variable is set and is not NU=
LL
>>> There is nothing confusing about isset($this->Hours) =3D=3D FALSE in =
your
>>> example if isset($this->seconds) =3D=3D FALSE.
>>
>> Right, I understand how it would work, and the reasons why it would "m=
ake
>> sense", but it just feels wrong to me.  When you unset() a variable in=
 a
>> class, that whole variable is gone.  Its not just hiding somewhere, it=
s
>> completely gone.  If a property were to "pretend" it is not set, with =
an
>> isset method, it would still be there - just hiding.  That is why it
>> does not make sense to me.
>
> The main problem here is that unset and isset are not symmetric.
>
> isset() basically means there is a value.
> Where unset() destroys the _holder_ of the value.
>
> In that sense, unset is special since it works on another level, on the
> same level as property_exists().
>
> There are several possible approaches, but the main point here is that =
at
> least isset() still makes sense.
> property_exists() and unset() should be dealt with carefully in another
> way.

Ok.  Well isset() could just run the get handler for the property, and if
it is null, return false, and otherwise return true.

- Dennis