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Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 11:10:30 +0100
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=MrhT00RKxtpbdw8OXj44xsDYQ1sJeb=7Cr3dr@mail.gmail.com>
To: Gwynne Raskind <gwynne@darkrainfall.org>
Cc: PHP internals <internals@lists.php.net>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636284dbe1572dd0496426625
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] git anyone?
From: info@tyrael.hu (Ferenc Kovacs)

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On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 10:49 AM, Gwynne Raskind <gwynne@darkrainfall.org>w=
rote:

> On Nov 29, 2010, at 4:19 AM, Lester Caine wrote:
> >>> I've not used git or hg much at all, but bzr has always satisfied my
> >>> needs for DVCS, and has recently gotten much faster and more space
> >>> efficient than it was in the past.
> >> Sorry, but I think bzr is not a good fit. It's numerous changes to the
> >> repository format make it impossible to use. It's either slow if you u=
se
> an old
> >> version, or it's incompatible with old clients, let's say on an old
> debian box.
> >>
> >> So I think php.net is better of using mercurial or git, but if we put
> together
> >> an RFC for a migration, I'll make sure bzr is covered as well in an
> evaluation.
> > Personally I would need a very good reason to add yet another DVCS to t=
he
> mix here! I've not found bzr as easy to link to from hg as git is. In fac=
t
> I've not actually got it to play at all as yet ... while hg does work int=
o
> git with only the problems of managing multiple repo's which is still wor=
k
> in progress on both of them.
> >
> > That said, bzr does seem to handle the multiple repo's in a more user
> friendly manor? It is just a pity that there is NOT a single target solut=
ion
> for DVCS as everybody is currently scurrying off to their own corners :( =
The
> barriers have already been drawn rather then there being concensus on som=
e
> sort of standard.
>
>
> I think it's high time I tossed in my 1.682=C2=A5(JPY) (according to curr=
ent
> exchange rates)...
>
> I've been out of the PHP dev community for some months now, so anything I
> say has to be taken with a grain of salt; I simply don't have the time ri=
ght
> now to catch up in any detail on the current state of affairs.
>
> That in mind, I was already disgusted with SVN by the time the move to it
> was finished. At the risk of drawing a bit of fire, I have to say I agree
> with Linus Torvalds' attitude about it, when he said (search "Linus Torva=
lds
> subversion" on Google for the reference) that it was pointless and that C=
VS
> couldn't be done right.
>
> SVN ditched things CVS had that should've been kept. Sub-repo management
> (modules) and module merging/aliasing are the two I fought most with duri=
ng
> the migration; externals were a BAD patch on the problem! SVN was trying =
to
> "do CVS right", but that simply doesn't hold together in the modern softw=
are
> development world. Centralized servers by themselves are an old model.
> Simple, but old. That's why DVCSs exist in the first place!
>
> So yes, I think PHP needs to move past Subversion, which is being
> constantly held back by a model that's just too limited. The
> branching/merging nightmare seals the coffin, as far as I'm concerned.
>
> Which DVCS do I think is best?
>
> Git is the massive favorite out there at the moment, according to my
> Googling. I myself have never been able to fully get my head around it;
> someone said earlier in the thread that it's "a swiss army knife with a b=
oom
> button", a sentiment I tend to agree with. Still, someone else also
> correctly said that the huge majority of devs in PHP right now do use it,
> and that can't be ignored. It is my observation that the Windows issues h=
ave
> been largely solved in more recent times. GitHub itself (while I would
> prefer something we host ourselves), is pretty easy to use.
>
> I don't know much about Mercurial, having never used it, so I can't comme=
nt
> much on it. The fact that it continues to be prevalent at all versus Git
> says something for it, but it falls down against the ubiquity argument, a=
s a
> quick glance suggests to me that the learning curve would actually be a b=
it
> worse than Git's. Its Web interface makes me cringe.
>
> Bazaar is -my- current favorite, as its commands tend to translate almost
> directly from SVN's and while a minority, it has a passionate following
> (largely thanks to Ubuntu and MySQL, I think). But it being my personal
> favorite doesn't mean much. I also find Launchpad a bit incomprehensible,
> and Bazaar being written in Python feels a little odd to me. Don't we rel=
y
> enough already on competing languages? :) (Mercurial also suffers from
> this.)
>
> I am not going to attempt any kind of conclusion based on technical merit=
s
> (branching/merging ability, sub-repo support, etc.), as I don't know what
> the status of these features is, and even if I did, I no longer have enou=
gh
> knowledge of PHP's current state to apply the knowledge.
>
> So, I have to base my thought on what the most people are going to have t=
he
> least trouble working with, and that's Git, hands down. There are more th=
an
> enough people around the community with the full knowledge necessary to
> undertake the migration with minimum fuss; it's been pointed out that the
> kind of massive manual balancing I had to do for CVS->SVN would be
> completely absent.
>
> I just wish I didn't have to also admit that Trac is a really great proje=
ct
> management system. Unless things have changed drastically since I was las=
t
> active, PHP still needs one. ^^;
>
> -- Gwynne
>
>
> --
> PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List
> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>
>
just a little comment on the last statement:
do you know about mtrack? it is a trac "clone" written in php by Wez

Tyrael

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