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Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 20:27:33 +0100
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To: Zeev Suraski <zeev@zend.com>
Cc: Ilia Alshanetsky <ilia@prohost.org>, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Johannes_Schl=FCter?= <johannes@schlueters.de>, 
	Andi Gutmans <andi@zend.com>, Jani Taskinen <jani.taskinen@iki.fi>, "davey@php.net" <davey@php.net>, 
	PHP Internals <internals@lists.php.net>
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Hold off 5.4
From: pierre.php@gmail.com (Pierre Joye)

On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 8:15 PM, Zeev Suraski <zeev@zend.com> wrote:

> I'll begin again by saying I don't feel strongly about renaming 5.4 as 7.=
0, but there are some important points worth bringing up:
>
> 1. The motivation for changing major version numbers was *never* BC break=
age. =A0It was substantial language changes/additions and sometimes substan=
tial underlying engine changes. =A0BC breakage was typically a side effect =
of that.

No, but it was the main reasons.

> 2. =A0Marketing does not equate Evil. =A0There's nothing bad about making=
 good moves that improve the perception of PHP in its userbase or the world=
 at large. =A0Turning the current trunk version into a major version can be=
 perceived as a 'marketing' move - but that doesn't mean it's not legit. =
=A0Other than showing that the PHP project is moving along, there's also th=
e warm-fuzzy-feeling aspect, and based on the last couple of days it's clea=
r I'm not the only one that feels bad about being stuck in 5.x for over 6 y=
ears with no change in sight.

Right, and it was not meant badly. Only that it has no technical or
features-wise reasons to do so but brings its lots of risks with it.

> 3. The motivation to skip 6 doesn't stem from marketing at all. =A0The ma=
in motivation is that there's a VERY concrete perception amongst many users=
 about what PHP 6 is.

Leaving the very small conference crowd for a second: nobody never
ever heard of php6 before the total fiasco a couple of months ago.

> What we call that version, whether it's PHP 5.4, PHP 7.0 or even PHP 3000=
, shouldn't change the way we discuss contents for it. =A0The fact I want t=
o call the very same thing we intend to release with a different name has a=
bsolutely nothing to do with the pains we experimented with 5.3 or 6.0.

Let say I know us too good and I don't think moving it to a major
version will be of any help.

> We can agree to disagree (and again - whatever - I'm fine with 5.4!),

Right, but I really don't like that the feelings, wishes, requests and
will of most of the active developers seem to be totally ignored by a
couple of us. That's not what I like to see in a project like php.net.
There is clearly a need to change the way we work, communicate and
decide things (be releases, features, etc.). Like it or not, that's a
fact.

Other example, you do not want this type hinting, but what do you do
to change that? Why do you simply ignore it?

> but no need to invent unrelated horror stories :)

Invent horror stories? Maybe you should take a bit more parts of the
day to day releases and development to see that they are not invented
stories :).

Cheers,
--=20
Pierre

@pierrejoye | http://blog.thepimp.net | http://www.libgd.org