Newsgroups: php.internals Path: news.php.net Xref: news.php.net php.internals:50590 Return-Path: Mailing-List: contact internals-help@lists.php.net; run by ezmlm Delivered-To: mailing list internals@lists.php.net Received: (qmail 41793 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2010 19:15:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lists.php.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 26 Nov 2010 19:15:14 -0000 Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com smtp.mail=zeev@zend.com; spf=pass; sender-id=pass Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com header.from=zeev@zend.com; sender-id=pass Received-SPF: pass (pb1.pair.com: domain zend.com designates 212.25.124.185 as permitted sender) X-PHP-List-Original-Sender: zeev@zend.com X-Host-Fingerprint: 212.25.124.185 il-mr1.zend.com Received: from [212.25.124.185] ([212.25.124.185:54428] helo=il-mr1.zend.com) by pb1.pair.com (ecelerity 2.1.1.9-wez r(12769M)) with ESMTP id 9F/8C-61791-04700FC4 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2010 14:15:14 -0500 Received: from il-gw1.zend.com (unknown [10.1.1.22]) by il-mr1.zend.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D48350527; Fri, 26 Nov 2010 21:09:07 +0200 (IST) Received: from IL-EX2.zend.net ([fe80::986f:2786:21dc:93fe]) by il-ex2.zend.net ([::1]) with mapi; Fri, 26 Nov 2010 21:14:53 +0200 To: Pierre Joye CC: Ilia Alshanetsky , =?iso-8859-1?Q?Johannes_Schl=FCter?= , Andi Gutmans , Jani Taskinen , "davey@php.net" , PHP Internals Thread-Topic: [PHP-DEV] Re: Hold off 5.4 Thread-Index: AQHLiwviuNo+QHdN10+nuYhuTwQsF5OBSNCAgABg/ACAABLxAIAAkx6AgAACv4CAAAUhAIAABHCAgABiaYD///NOAIAAFaiAgAAMI4CAARf50P//+WqAgAA7/BA= Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 19:15:06 +0000 Message-ID: <887FE7CFF6F8DE4BB3A9535F53AFD06A2C5D4B7B@il-ex2.zend.net> References: <73.C4.59959.876BBEC4@pb1.pair.com> <3EA67EA2-A9B1-4DFB-8A30-05B37BCA313B@iki.fi> <8757232E56758B42B2EE4F9D2CA019C9154B70@US-EX2.zend.net> <1290705653.7033.73.camel@guybrush> <8757232E56758B42B2EE4F9D2CA019C9154C3B@US-EX2.zend.net> <1290707707.7033.115.camel@guybrush> <887FE7CFF6F8DE4BB3A9535F53AFD06A2C5D3910@il-ex2.zend.net> <887FE7CFF6F8DE4BB3A9535F53AFD06A2C5D4808@il-ex2.zend.net> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: RE: [PHP-DEV] Re: Hold off 5.4 From: zeev@zend.com (Zeev Suraski) > -----Original Message----- > From: Pierre Joye [mailto:pierre.php@gmail.com] > Sent: Friday, November 26, 2010 7:21 PM > To: Zeev Suraski > Cc: Ilia Alshanetsky; Johannes Schl=FCter; Andi Gutmans; Jani Taskinen; > davey@php.net; PHP Internals > Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Hold off 5.4 >=20 > On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 4:46 PM, Zeev Suraski wrote: > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Pierre Joye [mailto:pierre.php@gmail.com] > >> Sent: Friday, November 26, 2010 3:03 AM > >> To: Ilia Alshanetsky > >> Cc: Zeev Suraski; Johannes Schl=FCter; Andi Gutmans; Jani Taskinen; > >> davey@php.net; PHP Internals > >> Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Hold off 5.4 > >> > >> That can always be done later. > > > > Why do it later if we could do it now? :) > > > > Can you share some of the major things you think would constitute a > stronger reason to switch to 7 (or 11) than what we have in 5.4, that we = have > in the pipeline? >=20 > Wait, why do you want a major version for something that does not break > BC, that only adds a couple of features (even long awaited like traits)? = I don't > see one. >=20 > For a new major version I would rather first sort out the RFC, get the ne= xt 5.x > out and then begin the discussions, designs, etc. Or are you looking to r= e do > all the mistakes and pains we experiment with 5.3.0 and ex.6.0.0? I won't= go > down this way. >=20 > About the "let drop the number 6" thing, that's just plain marketing and > really, that's the least problem our users have, or that we have. I'll begin again by saying I don't feel strongly about renaming 5.4 as 7.0,= but there are some important points worth bringing up: 1. The motivation for changing major version numbers was *never* BC breakag= e. It was substantial language changes/additions and sometimes substantial= underlying engine changes. BC breakage was typically a side effect of tha= t. 2. Marketing does not equate Evil. There's nothing bad about making good = moves that improve the perception of PHP in its userbase or the world at la= rge. Turning the current trunk version into a major version can be perceiv= ed as a 'marketing' move - but that doesn't mean it's not legit. Other tha= n showing that the PHP project is moving along, there's also the warm-fuzzy= -feeling aspect, and based on the last couple of days it's clear I'm not th= e only one that feels bad about being stuck in 5.x for over 6 years with no= change in sight.=20 3. The motivation to skip 6 doesn't stem from marketing at all. The main m= otivation is that there's a VERY concrete perception amongst many users abo= ut what PHP 6 is. It's unlikely that PHP 6 will actually be that. Skippin= g this version makes perfect sense from just about any POV I can think of. = That's actually one thing I do feel more strongly about - we should probab= ly not reuse the version number 6.0 for something that's completely differe= nt than what we've been talking about for several years, whether it's now o= r anytime in the future. What we call that version, whether it's PHP 5.4, PHP 7.0 or even PHP 3000, = shouldn't change the way we discuss contents for it. The fact I want to ca= ll the very same thing we intend to release with a different name has absol= utely nothing to do with the pains we experimented with 5.3 or 6.0. We can agree to disagree (and again - whatever - I'm fine with 5.4!), but n= o need to invent unrelated horror stories :) Zeev