Newsgroups: php.internals Path: news.php.net Xref: news.php.net php.internals:50436 Return-Path: Mailing-List: contact internals-help@lists.php.net; run by ezmlm Delivered-To: mailing list internals@lists.php.net Received: (qmail 79432 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2010 11:24:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lists.php.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 23 Nov 2010 11:24:12 -0000 Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com header.from=zeev@zend.com; sender-id=pass Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com smtp.mail=zeev@zend.com; spf=pass; sender-id=pass Received-SPF: pass (pb1.pair.com: domain zend.com designates 212.25.124.185 as permitted sender) X-PHP-List-Original-Sender: zeev@zend.com X-Host-Fingerprint: 212.25.124.185 il-mr1.zend.com Received: from [212.25.124.185] ([212.25.124.185:38020] helo=il-mr1.zend.com) by pb1.pair.com (ecelerity 2.1.1.9-wez r(12769M)) with ESMTP id 04/D2-59959-B54ABEC4 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 2010 06:24:12 -0500 Received: from il-gw1.zend.com (unknown [10.1.1.22]) by il-mr1.zend.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCE6950509; Tue, 23 Nov 2010 13:18:17 +0200 (IST) Received: from IL-EX2.zend.net ([fe80::986f:2786:21dc:93fe]) by il-ex2.zend.net ([::1]) with mapi; Tue, 23 Nov 2010 13:23:57 +0200 To: Derick Rethans , Felipe Pena CC: internals Thread-Topic: [PHP-DEV] Hold off 5.4 Thread-Index: AQHLiq41Ol2hxdT5ykGg55EmaGXJcZN+stQAgAA0jnA= Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 11:24:06 +0000 Message-ID: <887FE7CFF6F8DE4BB3A9535F53AFD06A2C5B099F@il-ex2.zend.net> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: RE: [PHP-DEV] Hold off 5.4 From: zeev@zend.com (Zeev Suraski) > -----Original Message----- > From: Derick Rethans [mailto:derick@php.net] > Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2010 11:58 AM > To: Felipe Pena > Cc: internals > Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Hold off 5.4 >=20 > On Mon, 22 Nov 2010, Felipe Pena wrote: >=20 > > Given the current state of trunk, I think 5.4 release process should > > not begin tomorrow (alpha or whatever other status). There are > > numerous identified issues that we need to fix before even think to > > begin with a release. For example: > > > > - type hinting (or strict hinting) > > - no consensus > > - the RFCs are unclear > > - BC break introduced > > . classes named as any of the type hint scalar types do not work > > anymore aka class int {} >=20 > Yeah, there is a slight hint of a BC break in case you have a class named= "int" > or "float" etc. But there is: > http://uk.php.net/manual/en/userlandnaming.tips.php For the record, I'm still very uncomfortable with this new language syntax = - even if it's a no-op right now. How do we document it? As what? Are we effectively going to create the original type checking implementatio= n, but in a separate component people would have to install - thereby creat= ing two very different flavors of PHP? Regarding the alpha release, I think there are two key issues here: 1. Does this alpha mean anything at all. Some, myself included, don't fee= l comfortable about the state of certain things in the current codebase (ex= ample given above). Are we all in sync that even if a certain feature make= s it into the alpha, it doesn't mean that it won't be removed or be severel= y modified in an upcoming beta/GA? Is it clear it has no implications on w= hen the final release would be? That is, at least, the way I perceive alph= a releases. In which case it's not exactly clear to me what the benefits o= f releasing an Alpha in this day and age for PHP - where we have snapshots = every few hours. We need to have a very clear understanding of what this d= oes or doesn't mean, and make sure we communicate it properly to the users. 2. Not strictly related to this particular 5.4 effort, but I think that r= ecent months have shown that we desperately need a decision making process.= Somewhat more formalized and logical than anybody who happens to be subsc= ribed to internals@ being able to put things to a vote and vote on them. T= his is one tough cookie - but I think we have to tackle it. My personal be= lief is that people on internals@ are biased towards the very top end of th= e userbase pyramid, and we have to find a way to represent the views of the= PHP userbase at large.=20 Zeev=20