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Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2010 21:43:14 -0500
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To: "guilhermeblanco@gmail.com" <guilhermeblanco@gmail.com>
Cc: Zeev Suraski <zeev@zend.com>, PHP internals <internals@lists.php.net>
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP 5.4 - Meta attribute (aka. Annotations) support discussion
From: pierrick@webstart.fr (Pierrick Charron)

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+1

On 15 November 2010 21:27, guilhermeblanco@gmail.com <
guilhermeblanco@gmail.com> wrote:

> @Zeev: That topic was related to an already built patch, which some
> where in favor, some against. That discussion lead to nowhere.
> So I opened a thread topic by topic for some democracy approval. As
> soon as we reach some reasonable consensus, we can start another patch
> implementation based on what we end up with this thread.
>
> If result of the poll says "OK" to meta attribute, then we can discuss
> next topic (possible implementations).
> Until then, I'd rather appreciate everyone to stick to their votes
> instead of revamp another discussion that lead to nothing.
>
> BTW, I forgot to add my vote:
>
> +1
>
> On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 8:22 PM, Zeev Suraski <zeev@zend.com> wrote:
> > I don't see a point in repeating the discussion we've already had on th=
at
> topic several weeks ago.  There needs to be an overwhelmingly good reason=
 to
> add a brand new syntax to the language, a whole branch of it in the case =
of
> annotations - and there simply isn't.
> >
> > Zeev
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: guilhermeblanco@gmail.com [mailto:guilhermeblanco@gmail.com]
> >> Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 7:08 PM
> >> To: PHP internals
> >> Subject: [PHP-DEV] PHP 5.4 - Meta attribute (aka. Annotations) support
> >> discussion
> >>
> >> Hi folks,
> >>
> >> I'll start a series of topics (in this thread) about meta attribute
> (aka.
> >> Annotations) discussion.
> >> So as soon as we agree on each topic I'll open another point to be
> discussed.
> >> Only when we reach some consensus I'll open another topic discussion.
> >> I suggest to have a poll for each topic, so we can do some democratic
> >> internals decision. I'd reduce the scope of voters to only people with
> PHP
> >> karma.
> >>
> >> The first topic to be defined is: Does PHP need meta attribute support=
?
> >>
> >> Any language is built at the top of syntax, words, semantics and
> context.
> >> We cannot define it as a language if we don't have these 4 parts well
> fit
> >> together.
> >> For a simple sentence like: I am all ears, we can easily identify thes=
e
> parts.
> >> But the real meaning of this sentence (context) is only achieved with
> another
> >> part of the language: signifier-significate.
> >> A signifier is an atomic form, material element, visible, sensitive.
> >> A significate is an idea, semantic content, conceptual element, not
> sensitive
> >> perceptive.
> >>
> >> This important part is only reminded when we get back to semantics,
> >> specifically when talking about idiomatic expressions, a metaphor in o=
ur
> >> sample. The meaning will only work if we have the context, a known
> >> information. Our sentence would mean that spoker person only have ears=
,
> >> while the true meaning is that he/she is paying attention.
> >> A computer language doesn't differ from a language by any means. We ha=
ve
> >> tokens (words), a syntax, semantic. But the lack of contextualization
> brings a
> >> hole on language and how your application should behave. This behavior
> can
> >> be achieved by many different ways; the simplest way is known as meta
> >> information.
> >>
> >> Considering you have a lack of idiomatic expressions knowledge of
> someone
> >> that is reading. He'd think person only have ears, but if you meta
> notify him
> >> that it is a metaphor, he'd try to find a different meaning. Example:
> >> (Metaphor) I am all ears.
> >>
> >> Now that we find how meta-information can benefit languages, it is tim=
e
> to
> >> understand how meta-information can benefit a computer language.
> >>
> >> A good example is define a Service that validates Domain Objects.
> >> Imagining a scenario where you have a User class that holds email and
> >> password. Email and password fields must be validated, for example,
> email
> >> as an email and password with at least 6 chars. A generic validation
> service
> >> could not have the User validation hardcoded inside the service, so th=
e
> >> solution would be an external factor that explains to service how to
> validate
> >> the DO. One of the possible implementations would be a UserValidator
> class
> >> that contains validation rules for each field. This external factor is=
 a
> good
> >> sample of meta-information. But how would a meta attribute would solve
> >> this situation?
> >> A Service could simple retrieve the validation instructions by
> Reflecting the
> >> class which instance is going to be validated.
> >> Basically, to validate a Domain Object, it is simply required to add
> validation
> >> rules on desired attributes. Example:
> >>
> >> class User {
> >>     <Email Meta Information>
> >>     protected $email;
> >>
> >>     <At least 6 chars Meta Information>
> >>     protected $password;
> >> }
> >>
> >> *NOTE*: Please understand that this do not enter in any implementation
> >> details. It is not time (yet) to talk baout docblock, new syntax, etc.
> >> Scope now is simpler than that.
> >>
> >> Now that is possible to see how meta attribute support could benefit a
> >> language, I compiled a simple list of known projects and how can they
> >> benefit of meta support:
> >> - phpUnit Providing meta functionality for test cases, examples:
> >> @dataProvider for test data iteration, @expectedException for catching
> >> exceptions, etc.
> >> - Doctrine For Object-Relational mapping, examples: @Entity, @OneToOne=
,
> >> @Id, etc.
> >> - Zend Framework Server classes Used to automate mappings for XML-RPC,
> >> SOAP, etc.
> >> - FLOW3 for dependency injection and validation
> >> - Symfony2 for validation and routing rules
> >> - Others: Validation, Functional Behavior injection (which could take
> >> advantage of Traits), etc.
> >>
> >>
> >> Poll will be opened for voting for 7 days (1 week) starting from now.
> >> Poll will be closed next Monday at 5pm GMT.
> >> Question: Does PHP need meta attribute support?
> >>
> >> Happy voting!
> >>
> >> --
> >> Guilherme Blanco
> >> Mobile: +55 (16) 9215-8480
> >> MSN: guilhermeblanco@hotmail.com
> >> S=E3o Paulo - SP/Brazil
> >>
> >> --
> >> PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe,
> visit:
> >> http://www.php.net/unsub.php
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Guilherme Blanco
> Mobile: +55 (16) 9215-8480
> MSN: guilhermeblanco@hotmail.com
> S=E3o Paulo - SP/Brazil
>
> --
> PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List
> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>
>

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