Newsgroups: php.internals Path: news.php.net Xref: news.php.net php.internals:50218 Return-Path: Mailing-List: contact internals-help@lists.php.net; run by ezmlm Delivered-To: mailing list internals@lists.php.net Received: (qmail 44484 invoked from network); 16 Nov 2010 02:36:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lists.php.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 16 Nov 2010 02:36:31 -0000 X-Host-Fingerprint: 99.38.57.86 adsl-99-38-57-86.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net Received: from [99.38.57.86] ([99.38.57.86:2183] helo=localhost.localdomain) by pb1.pair.com (ecelerity 2.1.1.9-wez r(12769M)) with ESMTP id 2D/B7-25603-F2EE1EC4 for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2010 21:36:31 -0500 Message-ID: <2D.B7.25603.F2EE1EC4@pb1.pair.com> To: internals@lists.php.net Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2010 21:36:31 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.12) Gecko/20101027 Lightning/1.0b2 Thunderbird/3.1.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <887FE7CFF6F8DE4BB3A9535F53AFD06A2C59B588@il-ex2.zend.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Posted-By: 99.38.57.86 Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP 5.4 - Meta attribute (aka. Annotations) support discussion From: alecgorge@gmail.com (Alec) I forgot my vote too: +1 On 11/15/2010 9:27 PM, guilhermeblanco@gmail.com wrote: > @Zeev: That topic was related to an already built patch, which some > where in favor, some against. That discussion lead to nowhere. > So I opened a thread topic by topic for some democracy approval. As > soon as we reach some reasonable consensus, we can start another patch > implementation based on what we end up with this thread. > > If result of the poll says "OK" to meta attribute, then we can discuss > next topic (possible implementations). > Until then, I'd rather appreciate everyone to stick to their votes > instead of revamp another discussion that lead to nothing. > > BTW, I forgot to add my vote: > > +1 > > On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 8:22 PM, Zeev Suraski wrote: >> I don't see a point in repeating the discussion we've already had on that topic several weeks ago. There needs to be an overwhelmingly good reason to add a brand new syntax to the language, a whole branch of it in the case of annotations - and there simply isn't. >> >> Zeev >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: guilhermeblanco@gmail.com [mailto:guilhermeblanco@gmail.com] >>> Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 7:08 PM >>> To: PHP internals >>> Subject: [PHP-DEV] PHP 5.4 - Meta attribute (aka. Annotations) support >>> discussion >>> >>> Hi folks, >>> >>> I'll start a series of topics (in this thread) about meta attribute (aka. >>> Annotations) discussion. >>> So as soon as we agree on each topic I'll open another point to be discussed. >>> Only when we reach some consensus I'll open another topic discussion. >>> I suggest to have a poll for each topic, so we can do some democratic >>> internals decision. I'd reduce the scope of voters to only people with PHP >>> karma. >>> >>> The first topic to be defined is: Does PHP need meta attribute support? >>> >>> Any language is built at the top of syntax, words, semantics and context. >>> We cannot define it as a language if we don't have these 4 parts well fit >>> together. >>> For a simple sentence like: I am all ears, we can easily identify these parts. >>> But the real meaning of this sentence (context) is only achieved with another >>> part of the language: signifier-significate. >>> A signifier is an atomic form, material element, visible, sensitive. >>> A significate is an idea, semantic content, conceptual element, not sensitive >>> perceptive. >>> >>> This important part is only reminded when we get back to semantics, >>> specifically when talking about idiomatic expressions, a metaphor in our >>> sample. The meaning will only work if we have the context, a known >>> information. Our sentence would mean that spoker person only have ears, >>> while the true meaning is that he/she is paying attention. >>> A computer language doesn't differ from a language by any means. We have >>> tokens (words), a syntax, semantic. But the lack of contextualization brings a >>> hole on language and how your application should behave. This behavior can >>> be achieved by many different ways; the simplest way is known as meta >>> information. >>> >>> Considering you have a lack of idiomatic expressions knowledge of someone >>> that is reading. He'd think person only have ears, but if you meta notify him >>> that it is a metaphor, he'd try to find a different meaning. Example: >>> (Metaphor) I am all ears. >>> >>> Now that we find how meta-information can benefit languages, it is time to >>> understand how meta-information can benefit a computer language. >>> >>> A good example is define a Service that validates Domain Objects. >>> Imagining a scenario where you have a User class that holds email and >>> password. Email and password fields must be validated, for example, email >>> as an email and password with at least 6 chars. A generic validation service >>> could not have the User validation hardcoded inside the service, so the >>> solution would be an external factor that explains to service how to validate >>> the DO. One of the possible implementations would be a UserValidator class >>> that contains validation rules for each field. This external factor is a good >>> sample of meta-information. But how would a meta attribute would solve >>> this situation? >>> A Service could simple retrieve the validation instructions by Reflecting the >>> class which instance is going to be validated. >>> Basically, to validate a Domain Object, it is simply required to add validation >>> rules on desired attributes. Example: >>> >>> class User { >>> >>> protected $email; >>> >>> >>> protected $password; >>> } >>> >>> *NOTE*: Please understand that this do not enter in any implementation >>> details. It is not time (yet) to talk baout docblock, new syntax, etc. >>> Scope now is simpler than that. >>> >>> Now that is possible to see how meta attribute support could benefit a >>> language, I compiled a simple list of known projects and how can they >>> benefit of meta support: >>> - phpUnit Providing meta functionality for test cases, examples: >>> @dataProvider for test data iteration, @expectedException for catching >>> exceptions, etc. >>> - Doctrine For Object-Relational mapping, examples: @Entity, @OneToOne, >>> @Id, etc. >>> - Zend Framework Server classes Used to automate mappings for XML-RPC, >>> SOAP, etc. >>> - FLOW3 for dependency injection and validation >>> - Symfony2 for validation and routing rules >>> - Others: Validation, Functional Behavior injection (which could take >>> advantage of Traits), etc. >>> >>> >>> Poll will be opened for voting for 7 days (1 week) starting from now. >>> Poll will be closed next Monday at 5pm GMT. >>> Question: Does PHP need meta attribute support? >>> >>> Happy voting! >>> >>> -- >>> Guilherme Blanco >>> Mobile: +55 (16) 9215-8480 >>> MSN: guilhermeblanco@hotmail.com >>> São Paulo - SP/Brazil >>> >>> -- >>> PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: >>> http://www.php.net/unsub.php >> >> > > >