Newsgroups: php.internals Path: news.php.net Xref: news.php.net php.internals:50032 Return-Path: Mailing-List: contact internals-help@lists.php.net; run by ezmlm Delivered-To: mailing list internals@lists.php.net Received: (qmail 45067 invoked from network); 30 Oct 2010 20:13:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lists.php.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 30 Oct 2010 20:13:28 -0000 Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com smtp.mail=admin@codeangel.org; spf=permerror; sender-id=unknown Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com header.from=admin@codeangel.org; sender-id=unknown Received-SPF: error (pb1.pair.com: domain codeangel.org from 216.119.135.130 cause and error) X-PHP-List-Original-Sender: admin@codeangel.org X-Host-Fingerprint: 216.119.135.130 a2s40.a2hosting.com Windows 98 (1) Received: from [216.119.135.130] ([216.119.135.130:44187] helo=a2s40.a2hosting.com) by pb1.pair.com (ecelerity 2.1.1.9-wez r(12769M)) with ESMTP id D7/F0-40062-86C7CCC4 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 2010 16:13:28 -0400 Received: from c-98-212-133-218.hsd1.il.comcast.net ([98.212.133.218] helo=[192.168.0.100]) by a2s40.a2hosting.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PCHnl-0000UM-Sq; Sat, 30 Oct 2010 16:13:22 -0400 Message-ID: <4CCC7C74.1060406@codeangel.org> Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2010 15:13:40 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.1.15) Gecko/20101027 Thunderbird/3.0.10 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Peter Lind CC: "Daniel P. Brown" , internals@lists.php.net References: <4CCBB87F.7090209@codeangel.org> <4CCBBB6C.5040802@lerdorf.com> <4CCBBC86.3020005@codeangel.org> <4CCBF85B.4090601@gmx.li> <4CCC4967.6060807@codeangel.org> <4CCC4C05.5080108@codeangel.org> <4CCC5357.5050905@codeangel.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - a2s40.a2hosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - lists.php.net X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - codeangel.org Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] rename T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM to T_DOUBLE_COLON From: admin@codeangel.org (Chad Emrys) On 10/30/2010 12:44 PM, Peter Lind wrote: > On 30 October 2010 19:18, Chad Emrys wrote: > >> On 10/30/2010 11:58 AM, Daniel P. Brown wrote: >> >>> On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 12:47, Chad Emrys wrote: >>> >>> >>>> It's not that I'm that sure of myself, it's that I believe that my >>>> opinion >>>> has merit, and I keep seeing the exact same argument over and over again >>>> that I believe is not a very good argument (They can just google it >>>> thing). >>>> Some other people have provided other arguments as well and those are >>>> more >>>> valued. (Though I don't think they are strong enough reasons yet NOT to >>>> do >>>> it). >>>> >>>> >>> It does have merit --- to you, and perhaps a few others. >>> Hopefully without sounding like I'm ridiculing you (it's not my >>> intent), have you seriously considered this at all, and are you >>> realizing that it's just not going to happen at this time? I mean, if >>> you submitted a request or implementation proposal for an INI-based >>> option to switch between token strings and expanded help messages, >>> that would likely receive more serious attention than the dismissive >>> responses and formed opinions of your own insight as based upon this >>> discussion. >>> >>> >>> >>>> Forking won't fix this particular problem. >>>> >>>> >>> Well, if your statement about how no one here who disagrees with >>> you does "enough support" (which is, quite frankly, an asinine >>> assessment), then an equal rebuttal will be that you do not know >>> enough about the inner workings of the software you claim to support, >>> nor the culture of the group who maintains it. >>> >>> You're taking a minor annoyance and trying to convince the masses >>> - and indeed the "powers that be" - that it is tantamount to Y2K38. >>> Again, I'm really not trying to insult you or your original opinion >>> here, Chad, but the continued arguments are almost coming off as silly >>> now. >>> >>> >>> >> If you haven't noticed, I am a bit stubborn, yes it's a problem. When I >> submitted this proposal, I have to at least try to plant a bug in their >> brain that perhaps, they are being to hasty on dismissing this argument. >> True, I do not know a lot about this particular culture that maintains PHP. >> I just know the bigger culture of those who use PHP, and some of them are >> quite annoyed by the dismissive nature of the maintainers who are quite at >> odds to what the majority of the community want or needs. And I am sort of >> glad to annoy those who are overly dismissive, and hopefully ploy the one's >> who are on the fence. >> >> No one said I was good at politics. But the fact one has to play the >> politics game here to get anything worth while doesn't really phase me. >> >> Now I am starting to find this argument straying from the point. I don't >> believe attacking me personally or me attacking the nature of this mailing >> list really has to do with the subject line. >> >> > Why not throw your weight behind http://wiki.php.net/rfc/lemon ? Seems > to me that might get a lot more traction. > > Regards > Peter > > I actually know Etienne, he does spend some of his time fighting the good fight of supporting PHP :p. Anyway he has said the lemon parser project is going kind of slow as it is proving to be more difficult because some of the weirdness in PHP. (Don't ask me what that means.) Maybe more help should be put into that effort?