Newsgroups: php.internals Path: news.php.net Xref: news.php.net php.internals:49992 Return-Path: Mailing-List: contact internals-help@lists.php.net; run by ezmlm Delivered-To: mailing list internals@lists.php.net Received: (qmail 2857 invoked from network); 30 Oct 2010 06:30:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lists.php.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 30 Oct 2010 06:30:10 -0000 Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com header.from=rasmus@lerdorf.com; sender-id=unknown Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com smtp.mail=rasmus@lerdorf.com; spf=permerror; sender-id=unknown Received-SPF: error (pb1.pair.com: domain lerdorf.com from 209.85.214.170 cause and error) X-PHP-List-Original-Sender: rasmus@lerdorf.com X-Host-Fingerprint: 209.85.214.170 mail-iw0-f170.google.com Received: from [209.85.214.170] ([209.85.214.170:63287] helo=mail-iw0-f170.google.com) by pb1.pair.com (ecelerity 2.1.1.9-wez r(12769M)) with ESMTP id 44/21-31541-17BBBCC4 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 2010 02:30:10 -0400 Received: by iwn9 with SMTP id 9so3315750iwn.29 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 23:30:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.42.91.207 with SMTP id q15mr9973409icm.83.1288420207219; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 23:30:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Rasmus-Lerdorfs-MacBook-Pro.local (c-98-234-184-167.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [98.234.184.167]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id w9sm4660916ibc.7.2010.10.29.23.30.06 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Fri, 29 Oct 2010 23:30:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4CCBBB6C.5040802@lerdorf.com> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 23:30:04 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; en-US; rv:1.9.2.12) Gecko/20101027 Lightning/1.0b2 Thunderbird/3.1.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chad Emrys CC: "internals@lists.php.net" References: <4CCBB87F.7090209@codeangel.org> In-Reply-To: <4CCBB87F.7090209@codeangel.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] rename T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM to T_DOUBLE_COLON From: rasmus@lerdorf.com (Rasmus Lerdorf) On 10/29/10 11:17 PM, Chad Emrys wrote: > The fact they have to google to figure out what it means, the error > message fails at it's purpose. (Realistically it'll take longer than a > second unless you got google hot keyed to your log reader). I Liked > Stefan's idea in the previous thread to not put token names in the error > messages anymore and replace them with something more meaningful for the > user. However, since that never happened, this is a better/easier > alternative for now. How many total hours of googling will we save > developers for a 10 sec grep and replace? (not sure if it's that easy, > but for the sake of the argument). > > I can see only positives by switching it out. can someone give me a > light on how much it would actually cost to do that? Some negatives? I > don't see the argument given to be entirely helpful because it's exactly > what I am trying to point out as a problem, and the reason why we should > change it. There are two reasons this term will stay. It is a tip of the hat to the amount of PHP work that came out of Israel, and it is a good reminder that there are a lot of other languages in the world. People whose first language is not English, myself included, are forced to work with unfamiliar terms every day. I wouldn't mind having a few more non-English identifiers in PHP actually. Well, and a third reason, I like it. -Rasmus