Newsgroups: php.internals Path: news.php.net Xref: news.php.net php.internals:49384 Return-Path: Mailing-List: contact internals-help@lists.php.net; run by ezmlm Delivered-To: mailing list internals@lists.php.net Received: (qmail 16109 invoked from network); 11 Aug 2010 21:26:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lists.php.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 11 Aug 2010 21:26:53 -0000 Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com header.from=zeev@zend.com; sender-id=pass Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com smtp.mail=zeev@zend.com; spf=pass; sender-id=pass Received-SPF: pass (pb1.pair.com: domain zend.com designates 212.25.124.185 as permitted sender) X-PHP-List-Original-Sender: zeev@zend.com X-Host-Fingerprint: 212.25.124.185 il-mr1.zend.com Received: from [212.25.124.185] ([212.25.124.185:50811] helo=il-mr1.zend.com) by pb1.pair.com (ecelerity 2.1.1.9-wez r(12769M)) with ESMTP id B5/36-18548-B95136C4 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 2010 17:26:53 -0400 Received: from il-gw1.zend.com (unknown [10.1.1.21]) by il-mr1.zend.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECA9550544; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 00:26:34 +0300 (IDT) Received: from LAP-ZEEV.zend.com ([10.1.20.50]) by il-gw1.zend.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Thu, 12 Aug 2010 00:26:48 +0300 Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20100812001106.0ef429b0@zend.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 00:26:34 +0300 To: Josh Davis Cc: Stas Malyshev , Internals In-Reply-To: References: <1281478269.6608.292.camel@guybrush> <4C61E5CA.5070604@sugarcrm.com> <4C61F3EF.5030409@sugarcrm.com> <4C6241D1.6030909@sugarcrm.com> <4C62DBE9.7090008@sugarcrm.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20100811213714.1540f338@zend.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20100811225519.0ef42c40@zend.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Aug 2010 21:26:48.0096 (UTC) FILETIME=[E7BF0200:01CB399B] Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Strict typing From: zeev@zend.com (Zeev Suraski) At 23:59 11/08/2010, Josh Davis wrote: >Not sure what kind of impact we're talking about here. Currently, >there's no scalar type hinting and there will never be a consensus >around strict XOR weak. Having an implementation that allows both >while reusing a familiar syntax (parentheses as a way typecast) looks >like the best (and perhaps only) way to move on. Josh, No disrespect, but I can't explain why it's bad to have both implementations any better than I already did. If you don't see it, chances are that no matter how much I try to explain - it won't help - we probably see things too differently for us to ever agree on it. Let's end it by saying that a great deal of people here think it's horrible to introduce strict typing to PHP period. Whether we also add anything else at the same time doesn't change that one bit. Moving forward with both is certainly not the only option, I'd say (given the paragraph above) that it's not an option at all. At the very least, there's one other option which is doing nothing. And that's assuming we can't reach widespread consensus that auto-converting type hints are bad. The opposition to strict typing was that it's 'evil', and we mustn't introduce it into PHP. The opposition to auto-converting type hints was that strict typing is supposedly better. Now that strict typing is pretty clearly off the table - how would those that supported it vote between doing nothing at all and 'settling' for auto-converting type hints? That's the real question on the table now. For the record, I'm fine with both options, although personally I'd go for the latter. Zeev