Newsgroups: php.internals Path: news.php.net Xref: news.php.net php.internals:49348 Return-Path: Mailing-List: contact internals-help@lists.php.net; run by ezmlm Delivered-To: mailing list internals@lists.php.net Received: (qmail 45579 invoked from network); 11 Aug 2010 15:41:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lists.php.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 11 Aug 2010 15:41:10 -0000 X-Host-Fingerprint: 64.8.134.189 unknown Received: from [64.8.134.189] ([64.8.134.189:13951] helo=localhost.localdomain) by pb1.pair.com (ecelerity 2.1.1.9-wez r(12769M)) with ESMTP id BF/38-01618-694C26C4 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 2010 11:41:10 -0400 To: internals@lists.php.net,=?UTF-8?B?Sm9oYW5uZXMgU2NobMO8dGVy?= Message-ID: <4C62C492.70009@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 10:41:06 -0500 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Windows/20100228) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1281478269.6608.292.camel@guybrush> <4C61D6D0.90907@sugarcrm.com> <4C62B9E0.4030305@gmail.com> <1281540200.1132.36.camel@guybrush> In-Reply-To: <1281540200.1132.36.camel@guybrush> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Posted-By: 64.8.134.189 Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Strict typing From: rpanning@gmail.com (Ryan Panning) Johannes Schlüter wrote: > Good that this discussion happens in a secret place on a list no > "community" members can see. > > Oh wait. It doesn't. Oh and wait we let users participate! > > And "we know best" - well part of this is that for doing the discussion > in a sane way you need some minimum knowledge and some experience. > > I talked to PHP users on different conferences, even about type hints at > different conferences and such and if you ask them "Do you want type > hints?" most of them will answer "yes, yes, yes!" until you explain the > consequences, like I did a bit on my blog[1] (again very secret > discussion ignoring all users!). Then suddenly they agree that type > hints are bad. > > But that's not their opinion. That's manipulation. Asking the question > the way you want while providing the material to support your point. (It > is hard to ask this in an "neutral" way) For _real_ argumentation you > need to really think through it. And here on the list are people who try > to do this. > > Many people participating in this discussion discussed other problems, > too and then found out what the bad consequences are, and learned from > these mistakes. Others are willing to invest time to think through > ideas. Few just flame/try to push their opinion. But still this is an > open list. (sometimes unfortunately) > > johannes > > [1] http://schlueters.de/blog/archives/139-Scalar-type-hints-in-PHP-trunk.html > Fair enough. I just feel like if I don't follow this newsgroup then I won't know what's going on with PHP. For others like myself, I don't know about other places to watch, such as your blog or the IRC. Votes that I have casted here have been counted, and I thank you for that. But it just seems hard to follow at times.