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Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 15:19:21 +0100
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To: Zeev Suraski <zeev@zend.com>
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	Kalle Sommer Nielsen <kalle@php.net>, Internals <internals@lists.php.net>, Derick Rethans <derick@php.net>
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Strict typing (was: Typehints)
From: rquadling@gmail.com (Richard Quadling)

On 11 August 2010 15:13, Zeev Suraski <zeev@zend.com> wrote:
> At 15:14 11/08/2010, Richard Quadling wrote:
>>
>> On 11 August 2010 12:10, Zeev Suraski <zeev@zend.com> wrote:
>> > We need to remove strict typing from trunk before we release anything
>> > 'official' from php.net
>>
>> I thought "trunk" is, to some degree, the "work in progress" /
>> "developers only", YMMV branch. Pretty much anything/everything in
>> there is subject to change. No money back guarantees. Etc.
>
> Supposedly we switched to this strategy although I'm not sure why, nor I
> recall any discussion about it - although I may have missed it. =C2=A0We =
never
> ever treated HEAD this way in the CVS days. =C2=A0So sure, now it's calle=
d
> 'trunk', but why we should deviate from our decision making processes (as
> lax as they may be) because we changed version control systems is beyond =
me.
>
>> For an official release, even as a "Here is what we are working on. It
>> might not be perfect, but we like it" release, a separate branch would
>> be created.
>
> It's really not a matter of branches, trunk or HEAD. =C2=A0It's a matter =
of what
> 'php.net' puts its virtual stamp of approval on. =C2=A0If 5.4 alpha 1 cam=
e out
> with strict typing in it, it would send two very strong messages to the P=
HP
> community:
>
> 1. =C2=A0The next version of PHP is going to be named 5.4 - something tha=
t wasn't
> agreed upon (although personally I don't mind that much).
> 2. =C2=A0"We think strict typing is a good idea, here, play with it". =C2=
=A0Well,
> turns out that the collective 'we' doesn't really think that at all. =C2=
=A0It's
> no big news either, it's been known for many months.
>
> That goes back to my first paragraph. =C2=A0Personally, I don't like the =
'shoot
> first, ask questions later' approach that we supposedly switched to
> recently. =C2=A0To me it makes a whole lot more sense to discuss first, a=
nd only
> once a decision is made - go ahead and implement it. =C2=A0Whether we go =
formal
> with RFCs or less formal on internals@ (depending on the scope) - either =
way
> it's way better than committing first and only then discussing. =C2=A0Onc=
e in
> trunk we suddenly need a great reason to remove it, since trunk is now th=
e
> new 'status quo'. =C2=A0Thankfully in the case of strict typing there was=
 a
> strong, clear message from the community 'don't do it', but what about
> smaller features?
>
> 'Shoot first, ask questions later' equates 'bias for change'. =C2=A0Is th=
at where
> we want to be? =C2=A0IMHO no, we should carefully consider every change w=
e make
> to the core language at this point in time.
>
> Maybe I'm old school, but in my opinion, trunk should only contain
> agreed-upon features. =C2=A0It should also always build and pass tests
> successfully. =C2=A0It's not the wild-west version of PHP, it's PHP's nex=
t
> version, in progress. =C2=A0Want to work on something experimental or
> controversial? =C2=A0Do that in a branch, merge it if & when it gets acce=
pted to
> the language.
>
> Zeev
>
>

Thank you for that Zeev.


--=20
Richard Quadling.