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Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 06:40:45 -0700
Message-ID: <698DE66518E7CA45812BD18E807866CE045E642E@us-ex1.zend.net>
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Thread-Topic: [PHP-DEV] Strict typing (was: Typehints)
Thread-Index: Acs5Q21xLLt43DA+RXKrHA1ghBcbnQAFznIg
References: <AANLkTim7sNwZWyo8dQz-o6S=Tta-OGYqnDM0cDJX3A49@mail.gmail.com><1281478269.6608.292.camel@guybrush><4C61D6FB.6030108@sugarcrm.com><7.0.1.0.2.20100811085214.0f024300@zend.com> <AANLkTikH8Zi+stPtD065Z5zd7wpB-SU49f3duYOjSFnY@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Ilia Alshanetsky" <ilia@prohost.org>,
	"Zeev Suraski" <zeev@zend.com>
Cc: "Stas Malyshev" <smalyshev@sugarcrm.com>,
	=?iso-8859-1?Q?Johannes_Schl=C3=BCter?= <johannes@schlueters.de>,
	"Kalle Sommer Nielsen" <kalle@php.net>,
	"Internals" <internals@lists.php.net>,
	"Derick Rethans" <derick@php.net>
Subject: RE: [PHP-DEV] Strict typing (was: Typehints)
From: andi@zend.com ("Andi Gutmans")

I wouldn't mind living with neither but I think it's two separate =
discussions.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ilia Alshanetsky [mailto:ilia@prohost.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 3:52 AM
> To: Zeev Suraski
> Cc: Stas Malyshev; Johannes Schl=C3=BCter; Kalle Sommer Nielsen; =
Internals;
> Derick Rethans
> Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Strict typing (was: Typehints)
>=20
> I think that weak type-hinting defeats the whole purpose of the =
feature and I
> would rather not have it than have a non-obvious implementation.
>=20
> -1
>=20
> On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 2:03 AM, Zeev Suraski <zeev@zend.com> wrote:
> > At 01:47 11/08/2010, Stas Malyshev wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi!
> >>
> >>> For the record: I consider the current implementation as (one of)
> >>> the biggest mistakes in the last ten years.
> >>
> >> I agree completely. The fact that obvious absence of consensus is
> >> ignored and we are releasing feature that clearly has no consensus
> >> behind it as a part of an official release - when we have killed =
much
> >> lesser things for much lesser reasons - I think it is a very bad =
development.
> >
> > I agree completely too.
> >
> > We've also had quite a lengthy discussion on this topic, and there =
was
> > more support for 'weak' typing then there was for strict typing.
> >
> > The response to Johannes's blog also don't leave much room for
> > speculation regarding what the community at large thinks.
> >
> > Facts:
> > - When we introduced type hints, one of the 'conditions' were that
> > we'll never, ever have type hints for scalars - for many different
> > reasons - the strongest of which it simply doesn't fit PHP's theme.
> > - We managed to come up with an alternative solution, in the form of
> > auto-converting type hints for scalars, which does in fact fit PHP's
> > theme perfectly.
> > - I suggested we actually take the opportunity to slightly modify
> > PHP's conversion rules in esoteric cases, where our historical
> > decision is probably not the right one (e.g., silently converting
> > "abc" into 0 in case of integer context - instead emit a new E_TYPE
> > warning that would be off by default).
> >
> > My view in terms of preferences:
> > #1 - Auto-converting type hints + minor changes to PHP's conversion
> > rules
> > #2 - Auto-converting type hints
> > #3 - Doing nothing
> > #inf - Introducing strict typing into PHP (current trunk status)
> >
> > As Stas said - there's clearly anything but consensus around strict
> > typing, so our 'default' in case we can't reach agreement is #3 - =
the status
> quo.
> > =A0As everyone told me when this feature was committed to trunk - =
"it
> > doesn't mean anything, it's just trunk". =A0Let's stand behind that
> > statement and revert it.
> >
> > Strict typing should go away before any 'official' package comes out
> > of php.net.
> >
> > Zeev
> >
> > --
> > PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe,
> > visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
> >
> >
>=20
> --
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