Newsgroups: php.internals
Path: news.php.net
Xref: news.php.net php.internals:47391
Mailing-List: contact internals-help@lists.php.net; run by ezmlm
Received-SPF: error (pb1.pair.com: domain pooteeweet.org from 188.40.37.16 cause and error)
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1077)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
In-Reply-To: <698DE66518E7CA45812BD18E807866CE03ECF62E@us-ex1.zend.net>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 10:12:14 +0100
Cc: "Olivier Hill" <olivier.hill@gmail.com>,
 "Derick Rethans" <derick@php.net>,
 "PHP Developers Mailing List" <internals@lists.php.net>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-ID: <D743FF3D-BF83-4725-9CC5-469AF8DF0142@pooteeweet.org>
References: <4B9926E8.4080202@lerdorf.com> <alpine.DEB.2.00.1003131123540.4153@kossu.derickrethans.nl> <dc2522541003131015k7f38c733i21b128529b578d3f@mail.gmail.com> <698DE66518E7CA45812BD18E807866CE03ECF62E@us-ex1.zend.net>
To: Andi Gutmans <andi@zend.com>
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP 6
From: mls@pooteeweet.org (Lukas Kahwe Smith)


On 18.03.2010, at 06:55, Andi Gutmans wrote:

>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Olivier Hill [mailto:olivier.hill@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 10:15 AM
>> To: Derick Rethans
>> Cc: PHP Developers Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP 6
>>=20
>> We need to focus on Unicode more than what some says, whether this
>> means descoping the Unicode release or not. However, this means that
> the
>> development focus needs to be towards new features AND Unicode, not
>> having the new feature branch, and the siberia branch with Unicode
> support.
>=20
> I think the key to rebuilding momentum in PHP development is to not =
try
> and boil the ocean but to focus on "smaller" major releases. This =
would
> enable us to manage a more predictable release cycle, lower the risk =
for
> each release incl. better manage compatibility and increase motivation
> for contributors as they know they can have an impact and if they =
can't
> make one release they know the next isn't that far off (the latter =
also
> eliminates pressure to push pre-mature functionality into a release).

Yeah, I wouldnt mind if we would aim for regular releases in late spring =
early summer every year. This ensures that developers scratching their =
own itch have a clear timeline by when their hard work can make it into =
a stable release.

> In that spirit I would not necessarily couple Unicode support and the
> next "smaller" major version. First I would suggest to build a
> well-defined, reasonably scoped list of functionality for the next =
drop.
> I think we should make only a few features must-haves and the rest
> should-haves so that only high-priority pieces of functionality can
> potentially hold up a release. It also helps with quality as high risk
> functionality that feels unstable could be pushed out if needed. This
> encourages pushing out functionality to our users sooner rather than
> later (in the realm of reason).

+1

> Then as far as Unicode support is concerned I think we need to work in
> parallel on various RFCs that can provide alternative ways of
> approaching the Unicode problem. Given the performance hit, memory
> overhead and complexity of the current implementation (which I also
> supported) I think we should try and look for a solution that is more
> pragmatic and is more explicit - giving the average PHP user the same
> experience, compatibility and performance characteristics of PHP 5.x
> while giving the more sophisticated users who need Unicode the tools =
to
> build global applications.


+1 .. this all aligns perfectly with my suggestion to establish a =
"unicode working group" that I made in the "PHP 5.4 branch and trunk" =
thread. so just like you i agree that we shouldnt put the next release =
under the pressure of delivering "the unicode answer" .. if the working =
group gets done in time we can move it into the release plan, if not .. =
so it goes .. with regular releases the next chance to get unicode in =
isnt too far off.

regards,
Lukas Kahwe Smith
mls@pooteeweet.org