Newsgroups: php.internals Path: news.php.net Xref: news.php.net php.internals:47228 Return-Path: Mailing-List: contact internals-help@lists.php.net; run by ezmlm Delivered-To: mailing list internals@lists.php.net Received: (qmail 70593 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2010 16:55:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lists.php.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 13 Mar 2010 16:55:12 -0000 Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com header.from=webmaster@keryx.se; sender-id=pass Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com smtp.mail=webmaster@keryx.se; spf=pass; sender-id=pass Received-SPF: pass (pb1.pair.com: domain keryx.se designates 208.69.121.33 as permitted sender) X-PHP-List-Original-Sender: webmaster@keryx.se X-Host-Fingerprint: 208.69.121.33 supavet.nexcess.net Received: from [208.69.121.33] ([208.69.121.33:59706] helo=supavet.nexcess.net) by pb1.pair.com (ecelerity 2.1.1.9-wez r(12769M)) with ESMTP id CA/D8-15916-E63CB9B4 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2010 11:55:11 -0500 Received: (qmail 28322 invoked by uid 108); 13 Mar 2010 11:55:07 -0500 Received: from unknown (HELO z61p.keryx.se) (gunther@keryx.se@90.228.192.235) by supavet.nexcess.net with AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP; 13 Mar 2010 11:55:07 -0500 Message-ID: <4B9BC369.6030404@keryx.se> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 17:55:05 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.1.8) Gecko/20100301 Fedora/3.0.3-1.fc12 Lightning/1.0b1 Thunderbird/3.0.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: PHP Developers Mailing List Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Next major version must be 7 (Lessons learned from the ECMAScript committee) From: webmaster@keryx.se (Keryx Web) Hi again Trying to drive home this message I am starting a new thread. Mini-summary: The next *major* edition of PHP must be 7, not 6. Summary: A. There seem to be universal agreement that the up until last week branch of PHP called trunk was going to be PHP 6 is a dead end and not the way into the future. (I'll call this "PHP 6.old" from now on. B. Instead a more incremental approach is better, according to the consensus. (I'll call this "PHP.next".) C. BUT: There is a ton of articles and slides and blog posts describing PHP 6.old on the net already. D. If there will be a new major edition of PHP with the version number 6, not based on "PHP 6.old" but "PHP.next" it will take a huge amount of time for the old resources to disappear from Google search results and peoples minds. E (for ergo): The next major version of PHP must be called 7, to avoid confusion. Could we not at least agree on this? This is not a technical decision. It is a pedagogic decision. It is not a decision about if we are going from 5.3 to 7 directly or if there should be a 5.4 release in between. Nor is it a decision about timetable or features. (And it is an appropriate slap to publishers who have put out books with PHP 6 in their title, just for marketing purposes.) OK? You may stop reading now because I've made my point. Here comes a little fairy tale illustrating it further. A fairy tale from real life. Once upon a time there was a proposal for ECMAScript 4. Then along came Douglas Crockford and said "this is bad". Then Microsoft said "we concur". And Mozilla and Adobe said: "You are letting us down. You had promised to support ECMAScript 4 and you have a hidden agenda." And there was some name calling. And people were pissed. But then they talked to each other, and reached an agreement. There should be ES 3.1 first and ES 4 later. But they interpreted the agreement differently. Which made people pissed again. And work continued on the two branches, which were now incompatible with each other. But then they talked to each other again, and reached an agreement - again. And - poff - ECMAScript 4 was gone. And ECMAScript 3.1 became "fifth edition", because changes were to large for a point release. And the future became "Harmony", which might become 6th edition, once it's done. And everybody is happy :-) To make my point absolutely clear, this is the analogy: ES 4 = PHP 6.old ES 3.1 = PHP 5.4 ES 5 = PHP 7 And for those who have missed it, here is the story retold by Brendan Eich: http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/theater/video.php?v=eich-yuiconf2009-harmony And retold by Doug C: http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/theater/video.php?v=crockford-yuiconf2009-state -- Keryx Web (Lars Gunther) http://keryx.se/ http://twitter.com/itpastorn/ http://itpastorn.blogspot.com/