Newsgroups: php.internals
Path: news.php.net
Xref: news.php.net php.internals:45285
Return-Path: <tom@punkave.com>
Mailing-List: contact internals-help@lists.php.net; run by ezmlm
Delivered-To: mailing list internals@lists.php.net
Received: (qmail 33107 invoked from network); 16 Aug 2009 18:16:54 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO lists.php.net) (127.0.0.1)
  by localhost with SMTP; 16 Aug 2009 18:16:54 -0000
Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com header.from=tom@punkave.com; sender-id=unknown
Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com smtp.mail=tom@punkave.com; spf=permerror; sender-id=unknown
Received-SPF: error (pb1.pair.com: domain punkave.com from 209.85.220.215 cause and error)
X-PHP-List-Original-Sender: tom@punkave.com
X-Host-Fingerprint: 209.85.220.215 mail-fx0-f215.google.com  
Received: from [209.85.220.215] ([209.85.220.215:36886] helo=mail-fx0-f215.google.com)
	by pb1.pair.com (ecelerity 2.1.1.9-wez r(12769M)) with ESMTP
	id C5/93-15479-31D488A4 for <internals@lists.php.net>; Sun, 16 Aug 2009 14:16:52 -0400
Received: by fxm11 with SMTP id 11so2106307fxm.15
        for <internals@lists.php.net>; Sun, 16 Aug 2009 11:16:48 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.204.52.136 with SMTP id i8mr2193279bkg.160.1250446608035; Sun, 
	16 Aug 2009 11:16:48 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <613920271.20090817005351@scriptolutions.com>
References: <A66655EC-5573-4D3E-A515-C03105DD7EEE@stefan-marr.de>
	 <af54caaf0908150229m66a7031byac43cb407f0b6d66@mail.gmail.com>
	 <465610226.20090816150239@scriptolutions.com>
	 <1035866081.20090816155804@scriptolutions.com>
	 <af54caaf0908160933j1e644b8cv2c4fc8a4cf5c73b7@mail.gmail.com>
	 <613920271.20090817005351@scriptolutions.com>
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 14:16:48 -0400
Message-ID: <e52c06b30908161116y45007cc4o245e522f4b686787@mail.gmail.com>
To: Lothar Scholz <scholz@scriptolutions.com>
Cc: Paul Biggar <paul.biggar@gmail.com>, internals@lists.php.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Subject: Re: Re[5]: [PHP-DEV] Design of the Zend Engine's Instruction Set
From: tom@punkave.com (Tom Boutell)

Re: the performance of PHP, if it's badly implemented, shouldn't
Quercus (a reimplementation of PHP in Java) run rings around it?

In reality, Quercus is faster than PHP without APC, but with APC the
Quercus team themselves admit it only "roughly matches" the original
PHP in speed.

http://www.caucho.com/resin-3.0/quercus/

I guess you could spin this the other way though. Java optimizes well,
but not as well as raw C. Standard PHP, being implemented in raw C,
ought to have some performance advantages over a reimplementation in
Java. But apparently not so much.

On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 1:53 PM, Lothar Scholz<scholz@scriptolutions.com> w=
rote:
> Hello Paul,
>
> PB> Yes, by many times. Part of that might be the expense of PHP's weak
> PB> typing and references.
>
> No. Smalltalk, Javascript, Lua they all have the same problem with it
> and they solve it in much more clever and performant ways. Javascript
> with its class free OO is even harder and with V8 they have a much
> much better solution.
>
> It's just the implementation - not the language.
>
> PB> They cause most operations to be more
> PB> expensive, even if they are not used in that particular operation.
>
> PB> I did a performance analysis of PHP in a paper I have in submission.
> PB> You might find it interesting (comment welcome):
> PB> https://www.cs.tcd.ie/~pbiggar/wip-sac-journal.pdf.
>
> Thanks, just had a 10min quick look at it - hope to find some more
> time later.
>
> And first of all begin a tool writer (IDE Developer)
> myself i can't agree more about the problems with "the source
> is the specification" idea.
>
> <Strong Language Warning>
> This sucks so huge and is such a
> fucking lazy argument of an incompetent language development team.
> By the way greetings to Matz and his team who also sucks
> with his CRuby.
>
> I really questioning the skills of a lot of core programmers when
> i read the PHP manual section about namespaces. Simple questions about
> scopes of identifier aliasing - nothing of this is specified.
>
> A buggy implementation should solve as reference? Damn'd fucking
> college boys. This was an acceptable development method for PHP3.
> </Strong Language Warning>
>
> Okay i must cool myself down.
>
> I've seen that you talked about branch prediction misses in your
> paper. Did you ever tried to compile the original PHP with different
> compilers, for example from intel or sun studio? Did you test or have
> you ever heard of someone who tested the influence of the profiling
> feedback that modern C compilers offer? (Well don't ask me - it's
> somewhere on my TODO list - but i also haven't had the time yet).
>
> --
> Best regards,
> =A0Lothar Scholz =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0mailto:scholz@scriptoluti=
ons.com
>
>
> --
> PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List
> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>
>



--=20
Tom Boutell
P'unk Avenue
215 755 1330
punkave.com
window.punkave.com