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Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 12:15:36 +0000
To: "Steph Fox" <steph@phparch.com>
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Call it: allow reserved words in a class or not?
From: iammrdan@googlemail.com (Dan)

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Okay, I'm not going to sit and argue it... but to anyone looking at these
issues from outside the PHP internals world (like I am), that argument is
worthy of ridicule.
PHP may be a hybrid language, but the fact is you're implementing object
oriented functionality, and as such should be implementing it in a way that
follows de-facto standards in object oriented language design. I should be
able to overload your internal array object, and yes, arraysshould be
objects.

Javascript would be a prime example of a non-standard object oriented
approach, and yet that still manages to support the basics in a way that
make sense.

Dan


On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 12:03 PM, Steph Fox <steph@phparch.com> wrote:

> In .NET, I can stick an Array class into my own namespace, extending the
>> System.Array type if I want to and use it in my code without issue. Why
>> can
>> I not do that here? Is it simply that you're so worried about backwards
>> compatibility that you feel that you can't make the necessary changes to
>> the
>> language to implement something fully?
>>
>
> .NET is an object oriented language. It has something called System.Array.
>
> PHP is a hybrid language. It does not and hopefully never will have
> something called System.Array.
>
> It's like the difference between English and Esperanto... and you're
> telling us 'cough' should rhyme with 'cow' because that's how Esperanto
> would have it. But English is so much easier to learn, if more difficult to
> master, that it's become the lingua franca for the 'net.
>
> - Steph
>
>
>
>
>> Dan
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 11:43 AM, Ben Davies <bdavies@stickyeyes.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>  > Isn't the ability to do that one of the biggest reasons for having
>>> > namespaces? To avoid having to fill your class names with junk.
>>> > The examples are namespaced appropriately, they tell the developer that
>>> > it's
>>> > a Helper for Arrays in the MyFramework framework. I shouldn't need to
>>> > suffix
>>> > the class name with 'Helper' to reconfirm that, just because the PHP
>>> > engine
>>> > doesn't like it.
>>>
>>> "This thread really should be re-titled to "allow reserved words as a
>>> classname or not". Then perhaps the only logical response to the question
>>> would be so obvious that there would be no thread... oo-er..."
>>>
>>> I think you might be deliberately missing Dan's point here: array is a
>>> reserved word because it is not namespaced. If the PHP native function
>>> array() was namespaced to PHPCore\array() then Dan could create a class
>>> or
>>> function called array under his own namespace. This is exactly what
>>> namespacing affords us.
>>>
>>> array() is only a reserved word because it is not a directly accessable
>>> native datatype. If array() was an object Array, this wouldn't be a
>>> problem.
>>>
>>> This namespaces issues highlights the very fundamental issues with PHP,
>>> and
>>> glib, childish responses like yours only serve to score points.
>>>
>>> Grow up and join the conversation.
>>>
>>>
>>> Ben Davies | Lead Developer | Stickyeyes
>>> 6th Floor,
>>> West One,
>>> Wellington Street,
>>> Leeds, LS1 1BA
>>> Email: ben@stickyeyes.com
>>> 0113 391 2929 | <telephone> | Fax 0113 391 2939
>>>
>>> This e-mail may contain information that is privileged, confidential or
>>> otherwise protected from disclosure. It must not be used by, or its
>>> contents
>>> copied or disclosed to persons other than the intended recipient. Any
>>> liability (in negligence or otherwise) arising from any third party
>>> acting,
>>> or refraining from acting, on any information contained in this e-mail is
>>> excluded. The views expressed may not be official company policy, but
>>> instead, the personal views of the originator. If you have received this
>>> e-mail in error please notify the sender and delete the e-mail.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Steph Fox [mailto:steph@php.net]
>>> Sent: 06 November 2008 11:01
>>> To: Dan; troels knak-nielsen
>>> Cc: Larry Garfield; internals@lists.php.net; ben@stickyeyes.com
>>> Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Call it: allow reserved words in a class or not?
>>>
>>> > Isn't the ability to do that one of the biggest reasons for having
>>> > namespaces? To avoid having to fill your class names with junk.
>>> > The examples are namespaced appropriately, they tell the developer that
>>> > it's
>>> > a Helper for Arrays in the MyFramework framework. I shouldn't need to
>>> > suffix
>>> > the class name with 'Helper' to reconfirm that, just because the PHP
>>> > engine
>>> > doesn't like it.
>>>
>>> This thread really should be re-titled to "allow reserved words as a
>>> classname or not". Then perhaps the only logical response to the question
>>> would be so obvious that there would be no thread... oo-er...
>>>
>>> - Steph
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>

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