Newsgroups: php.internals Path: news.php.net Xref: news.php.net php.internals:41701 Return-Path: Mailing-List: contact internals-help@lists.php.net; run by ezmlm Delivered-To: mailing list internals@lists.php.net Received: (qmail 18546 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2008 22:50:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lists.php.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 5 Nov 2008 22:50:26 -0000 Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com header.from=sv_forums@fmethod.com; sender-id=unknown Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com smtp.mail=sv_forums@fmethod.com; spf=permerror; sender-id=unknown Received-SPF: error (pb1.pair.com: domain fmethod.com from 69.16.228.148 cause and error) X-PHP-List-Original-Sender: sv_forums@fmethod.com X-Host-Fingerprint: 69.16.228.148 unknown Linux 2.4/2.6 Received: from [69.16.228.148] ([69.16.228.148:46583] helo=host.fmethod.com) by pb1.pair.com (ecelerity 2.1.1.9-wez r(12769M)) with ESMTP id 27/AA-22938-13322194 for ; Wed, 05 Nov 2008 17:50:25 -0500 Received: from [83.228.56.37] (port=4669 helo=pc) by host.fmethod.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KxrCe-0000Td-Pi for internals@lists.php.net; Wed, 05 Nov 2008 16:50:22 -0600 Message-ID: To: "PHP Development" References: <29.7A.15458.C4880194@pb1.pair.com> <5C.FA.15458.9A980194@pb1.pair.com> Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 00:50:12 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="ISO-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5512 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - host.fmethod.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - lists.php.net X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - fmethod.com Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Namespace Resolution From: sv_forums@fmethod.com ("Stan Vassilev | FM") > - people expect direct access to the vast number of php functions/ > constants Do you know rule 1 in #phpc? This is one of those cases. People want :: and not backslash. People want global stuff to resolve in their namespace (how does this make any sense? the very idea of a namespace is to avoid this stuff). We should know better, and in fact we do know better since all those resolution order discussions won't be happening, trying to find a perfect intersection between what we know works, and what the (less informed) general public thinks it wants. And the reality is that the whole hatred to the mandatory leading slash is overblown beyond any proportions: 1) Newcomers to PHP won't be writing namespaced code. So their WON'T be confused. 2) They'll eventually use libraries with namespaces, in which case they're STILL not affected. 3) They'll be pasting code samples from the manual and forums in a blank file in global space, so they STILL won't be affected. 4) One day, their projects will start growing a lot, their experience with it, and they'll have the basic clue to prefix their global classes/functions when inside a namespace. So they STILL won't be affected. What do we do instead? We discuss how to optimize the non-existing scenario of noobs being irritated or confused when hammering global identifiers in a namespace, while producing unimanginable pain to every PHP coder out there from all ranges of experience and knowledge, with magical fallbacks and autoload mysteries. I suggest we all clear our minds a little and give a serious thought to all this again. If you just say "no fallbacks", some people will bitch 2-3 days, then try it, and see that it was not all that bad after all. Regards, Stan Vassilev