Newsgroups: php.internals Path: news.php.net Xref: news.php.net php.internals:41679 Return-Path: Mailing-List: contact internals-help@lists.php.net; run by ezmlm Delivered-To: mailing list internals@lists.php.net Received: (qmail 49557 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2008 03:13:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lists.php.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 5 Nov 2008 03:13:11 -0000 Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com smtp.mail=sv_forums@fmethod.com; spf=permerror; sender-id=unknown Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com header.from=sv_forums@fmethod.com; sender-id=unknown Received-SPF: error (pb1.pair.com: domain fmethod.com from 69.16.228.148 cause and error) X-PHP-List-Original-Sender: sv_forums@fmethod.com X-Host-Fingerprint: 69.16.228.148 unknown Linux 2.4/2.6 Received: from [69.16.228.148] ([69.16.228.148:37688] helo=host.fmethod.com) by pb1.pair.com (ecelerity 2.1.1.9-wez r(12769M)) with ESMTP id B1/70-15458-64F01194 for ; Tue, 04 Nov 2008 22:13:11 -0500 Received: from [83.228.56.37] (port=1189 helo=pc) by host.fmethod.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KxYpP-0005bq-R2 for internals@lists.php.net; Tue, 04 Nov 2008 21:13:08 -0600 Message-ID: To: "PHP Development" References: <49048EC1.9060908@chiaraquartet.net> <49061E01.8060503@zend.com> <11c607a60810271344i1a8cf53fl149447ad2f687f99@mail.gmail.com> <490628DB.9060209@zend.com> <11c607a60810271422l68949427pe31786275b0b152c@mail.gmail.com> <08747094-6B50-4A0D-9057-DFD12108B6C6@caedmon.net> <94CCB864-179A-48DA-A89A-3859796A9257@pooteeweet.org> <49063A1D.7070804@zend.com> <4906405F.7090205@zend.com> <490747B2.2010201@zend.com> <4D9A8597-EFE6-418A-B7F6-EAD9ED2361A5@pooteeweet.org> <7FA6946B-57B9-4BC0-B2F1-AFD47572F363@pooteeweet.org> <491071EC.7020501@cschneid.com> <49107527.7060604@chiaraquartet.net> <1652368155.20081105001225@marcus-boerger.de> Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 05:13:00 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5512 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - host.fmethod.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - lists.php.net X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - fmethod.com Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] namespace separator and whining From: sv_forums@fmethod.com ("Stan Vassilev | FM") >> Note that I say "try internal" because the only purpose behind allowing >> this is to make it easier to use PHP's built-in functionality. Any >> userspace stuff should be specifically \prefixed or imported via use. >> And (yes) we need import for functions. > >> Greg > >> P.S. my mail server has been down for almost a week, apologies to anyone >> who is wondering why I haven't replied to your message, I probably >> didn't get it. Hi, This is starting to bother me, to be honest. Every time we go back to this "fallback to internal X" I give examples and real world scenarios that will become broken in namespaces which work today outside a namespace. I get nods, agreement, people start talking that we should either fallback to *all global* functions, or *not fallback at all* so that the behavior is predictable for PHP users. ... And in few days we all forget problem and start talking about falling back to *internal* again. People do implement fallbacks for internal functionality as userspace functions/classes on their own, TODAY. In namespace, if you don't treat internal/user equally in resolution, things will work outside a namespace, and break inside it. This will be confusing to people, who especially use fallbacks to transparently implement missing PECL extensions or functionality, or augment the internal functions of PHP with other, for ex. user implemented ifsetor(), array_*() or str*() functions. Regards, Stan Vassilev