Newsgroups: php.internals Path: news.php.net Xref: news.php.net php.internals:41660 Return-Path: Mailing-List: contact internals-help@lists.php.net; run by ezmlm Delivered-To: mailing list internals@lists.php.net Received: (qmail 85638 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2008 19:02:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lists.php.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 4 Nov 2008 19:02:24 -0000 Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com header.from=mls@pooteeweet.org; sender-id=unknown Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com smtp.mail=mls@pooteeweet.org; spf=permerror; sender-id=unknown Received-SPF: error (pb1.pair.com: domain pooteeweet.org from 88.198.8.16 cause and error) X-PHP-List-Original-Sender: mls@pooteeweet.org X-Host-Fingerprint: 88.198.8.16 bigtime.backendmedia.com Linux 2.6 Received: from [88.198.8.16] ([88.198.8.16:56749] helo=bigtime.backendmedia.com) by pb1.pair.com (ecelerity 2.1.1.9-wez r(12769M)) with ESMTP id C2/FE-15458-F3C90194 for ; Tue, 04 Nov 2008 14:02:24 -0500 Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by bigtime.backendmedia.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B76FA4144059; Tue, 4 Nov 2008 19:03:08 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at backendmedia.com Received: from bigtime.backendmedia.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (bigtime.backendmedia.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id H42ywF-4TdMX; Tue, 4 Nov 2008 20:03:07 +0100 (CET) Received: from [192.168.0.151] (77-58-151-147.dclient.hispeed.ch [77.58.151.147]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: mls@pooteeweet.org) by bigtime.backendmedia.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49B8A4144009; Tue, 4 Nov 2008 20:03:07 +0100 (CET) Cc: Christian Schneider , PHP Development Message-ID: To: Gregory Beaver In-Reply-To: <49108D69.3090504@chiaraquartet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v929.2) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 20:01:17 +0100 References: <49048EC1.9060908@chiaraquartet.net> <49061E01.8060503@zend.com> <11c607a60810271344i1a8cf53fl149447ad2f687f99@mail.gmail.com> <490628DB.9060209@zend.com> <11c607a60810271422l68949427pe31786275b0b152c@mail.gmail.com> <08747094-6B50-4A0D-9057-DFD12108B6C6@caedmon.net> <94CCB864-179A-48DA-A89A-3859796A9257@pooteeweet.org> <49063A1D.7070804@zend.com> <4906405F.7090205@zend.com> <490747B2.2010201@zend.com> <4D9A8597-EFE6-418A-B7F6-EAD9ED2361A5@pooteeweet.org> <7FA6946B-57B9-4BC0-B2F1-AFD47572F363@pooteeweet.org> <491071EC.7020501@cschneid.com> <49107527.7060604@chiaraquartet.net> <49108D69.3090504@chiaraquartet.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.929.2) Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] namespace separator and whining From: mls@pooteeweet.org (Lukas Kahwe Smith) On 04.11.2008, at 18:59, Gregory Beaver wrote: > #2 means we want to be able to access stuff like strlen() and > array_map() without any monkey business. > functions/constants: > 1) ns\func or ns\const > 2) internal func\const > 3) FAILBOAT Right, for the most part people will want access to internal functions, but what is the benefit of not including user space functions/constants? I find this quite confusing. The resolution rules should be easy to explain and it should be easy to understand what is going to happen when reading code. Nobody knows all PHP internal functions (especially as new internal functions can be defined by enabling extensions), so expecting people to know what will or will not fallback is kind funky. So lets have a look about the disadvantages of including all functions/ constants: 1) you have to ensure the proper load order 2) .. ? As you pointed out, there is no autoload for functions, so people are accustomed to ensuring that all functions are loaded before usage. Am I missing something? regards, Lukas Kahwe Smith mls@pooteeweet.org