Newsgroups: php.internals
Path: news.php.net
Xref: news.php.net php.internals:41607
Mailing-List: contact internals-help@lists.php.net; run by ezmlm
Received-SPF: error (pb1.pair.com: domain macvicar.net from 193.227.246.108 cause and error)
Cc: Hannes Magnusson <hannes.magnusson@gmail.com>,
 Lukas Kahwe Smith <mls@pooteeweet.org>,
 PHP Development <internals@lists.php.net>
Message-ID: <2A034D56-FD8C-4AA1-9806-371B327ED393@macvicar.net>
To: Rasmus Lerdorf <rasmus@lerdorf.com>
In-Reply-To: <490B639A.8050905@lerdorf.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v929.2)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 23:35:05 +0000
References: <2077BA98-A58A-4EBD-8088-413654E878BC@pooteeweet.org>	 <490B5CC5.8040808@lerdorf.com> <7f3ed2c30810311252x7c4f1cb9ydd41a273f4089311@mail.gmail.com> <490B639A.8050905@lerdorf.com>
X-Spam_Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "lovelace.midden.org.uk", has
	identified this incoming email as possible spam.  The original message
	has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label
	similar future email.  If you have any questions, see
	the administrator of that system for details.
	Content preview:  On 31 Oct 2008, at 19:59, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: > Hannes Magnusson
	wrote: >> Behavioural change is desperately needed, and I think developers
	>> should lead by example. >> One way to to that is to add a new internal-core@
	mailinglist which >> is >> read-only to the world, and writeable by people
	with appropriate >> karma. >> >> That list would be dedicated for _development_
	discussion (including >> implementation, patches, "edge-case voting" and
	such things) and >> would >> include posts like are going on between greg,
	stas and dmitry, and >> posts which are going on between release managers
	and individual >> developers. This way we keep _everything_ in the open and
	maintain a >> "high quality" on-topic discussions. >> >> "external" patches
	and "general" discussions would still be on the >> internals@ list, as it
	would be the main discussion list. However, >> those who simply do not have
	the time to read over the entire thing >> have a specific low-traffic list
	which they can easily follow. > > This is the same as just making internals@
	read-only. Once we have > an internals-core, many core people will just unsubscribe
	from the > internals list. I know I probably would. And once the core > developers
	no longer read it, it becomes php-general2 and it ends up > excluding people
	from the development process. > [...] 
	Content analysis details:   (-4.1 points, 5.0 required)
	pts rule name              description
	---- ---------------------- --------------------------------------------------
	-1.8 ALL_TRUSTED            Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP
	-2.6 BAYES_00               BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 0 to 1%
	[score: 0.0000]
	0.3 AWL                    AWL: From: address is in the auto white-list
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] keeping traffic on this list manageable
From: scott@macvicar.net (Scott MacVicar)

On 31 Oct 2008, at 19:59, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote:

> Hannes Magnusson wrote:
>> Behavioural change is desperately needed, and I think developers
>> should lead by example.
>> One way to to that is to add a new internal-core@ mailinglist which  
>> is
>> read-only to the world, and writeable by people with appropriate
>> karma.
>>
>> That list would be dedicated for _development_ discussion (including
>> implementation, patches, "edge-case voting" and such things) and  
>> would
>> include posts like are going on between greg, stas and dmitry, and
>> posts which are going on between release managers and individual
>> developers. This way we keep _everything_ in the open and maintain a
>> "high quality" on-topic discussions.
>>
>> "external" patches and "general" discussions would still be on the
>> internals@ list, as it would be the main discussion list. However,
>> those who simply do not have the time to read over the entire thing
>> have a specific low-traffic list which they can easily follow.
>
> This is the same as just making internals@ read-only.  Once we have  
> an internals-core, many core people will just unsubscribe from the  
> internals list.  I know I probably would.  And once the core  
> developers no longer read it, it becomes php-general2 and it ends up  
> excluding people from the development process.
>

Users can still use reply on the internals list, so the poster can  
still receive responses rather than relying on them being subscribed  
to the internals list.

Scott