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Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 20:52:03 +0100
To: "Rasmus Lerdorf" <rasmus@lerdorf.com>
Cc: "Lukas Kahwe Smith" <mls@pooteeweet.org>, 
	"PHP Development" <internals@lists.php.net>
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	 <490B5CC5.8040808@lerdorf.com>
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] keeping traffic on this list manageable
From: hannes.magnusson@gmail.com ("Hannes Magnusson")

On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 20:30, Rasmus Lerdorf <rasmus@lerdorf.com> wrote:
> A simpler approach might be to just make the mailing list software enforce a
> 1 email per 24-hour day per user.  It would require a bit more upfront work

Thats not going to work, we often have multiple threads going on. Even
if it was limited to one post per thread every 24hour people would
simply create new threads about the same topic. Restricting the amount
of mail is no solution, just causes annoyances.

> to munge the software, but wouldn't require any ongoing effort.  Moderation
> can get messy since it isn't simply spam we or off-topic messages we are
> trying to control here, it is the volume, quality and timeliness of on-topic
> messages.  I'm not sure moderation is the answer to that.  We need a
> behavioural change here.

Behavioural change is desperately needed, and I think developers
should lead by example.
One way to to that is to add a new internal-core@ mailinglist which is
read-only to the world, and writeable by people with appropriate
karma.

That list would be dedicated for _development_ discussion (including
implementation, patches, "edge-case voting" and such things) and would
include posts like are going on between greg, stas and dmitry, and
posts which are going on between release managers and individual
developers. This way we keep _everything_ in the open and maintain a
"high quality" on-topic discussions.

"external" patches and "general" discussions would still be on the
internals@ list, as it would be the main discussion list. However,
those who simply do not have the time to read over the entire thing
have a specific low-traffic list which they can easily follow.

For people not with "write privileges" they can still chime in by
forwarding the posts to internals@ and give their 2cents.

Another indirect advantage is when docwriters mail in asking what
exactly something does, and if it really is meant to work that way,
the thread is obviously coming from "internal" guy and therefore has a
better chance of getting answers (rather then the "usual" ignore since
apparently think he is just a troll).

I cannot see any disadvantages here. I have faith in our developers.

-Hannes