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Cc: PHP Development <internals@lists.php.net>
Message-ID: <B2BFB7EE-123E-4753-88B4-0CE1412130B6@php.net>
To: Lukas Kahwe Smith <mls@pooteeweet.org>
In-Reply-To: <2077BA98-A58A-4EBD-8088-413654E878BC@pooteeweet.org>
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Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 19:53:26 +0100
References: <2077BA98-A58A-4EBD-8088-413654E878BC@pooteeweet.org>
Sender: Felix De Vliegher <felix.devliegher@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] keeping traffic on this list manageable
From: felixdv@php.net (Felix De Vliegher)

Hi Lukas

Sounds like a good idea to channel the volume on this list.
I was wondering, would the usergroup part be a replacement for the  
moderated messages by regular users or would it be an addition to it?  
I mean, we should better start promoting this one moderator-per- 
usergroup to usergroups worldwide, because moderating regular users  
will still generate quite some additional work. Not all users who have  
ideas/questions worth asking are involved in a user group too.

Anyhow, I'm up for an idea along these lines.

Regards,
Felix

Op 31-okt-08, om 19:23 heeft Lukas Kahwe Smith het volgende geschreven:

> Hi,
>
> So some core developers as well as lurking end users have noted that  
> the traffic on this list prevents them from being able to follow  
> this list. This is obviously a huge problem since this mailinglist  
> is supposed to be our primary discussion and decision making tool.
>
> I had a chat about this with Zoe, Stephan (of symonfy fame) and  
> Pierre at IPC. In this discussion I got the following idea (note  
> that I am listing the names here in order to credit them in this  
> idea, not because they necessarily endorse it):
>
> What if we have two lists for internal discussions. One which is  
> just as open as the current one and one that is moderated. People  
> with commit karma for php-src (and maybe also phpdoc) get  
> unmoderated access. However this obviously creates the issue that  
> the community and newcomers will have a much harder time to get in  
> contact with the core development team. As the list is moderated, it  
> would require people to manually allow the given posts. This creates  
> a bottleneck which would also create considerable work for those  
> moderators.
>
> Here I come to the key part of my idea. We would allow every PHP  
> usergroup to also appoint one person that gets unmoderated access to  
> the list. This enables members of the usergroup to feed their ideas  
> via that person directly to the list, taking load of the list  
> moderators and ensuring that things a given UG deem important are  
> not lost in this process. Furthermore this intermediate step would  
> serve to throttle the traffic and make the numbers of posters (their  
> writing style and expertise) more easily transparent to other  
> posters (but more importantly to the readers). I am sure this will  
> help reduce misunderstandings and more importantly result in a more  
> friendly tone (its just natural for people to feel overwhelmed by  
> too large a crowd).
>
> As a side bonus, we strengthen UGs around the world. This will  
> hopefully lead to better communication channels between internals  
> and active community members. It will certainly ease the  
> organization of future testfests (or docfrenzy's) as we will then  
> have contact people to talk to as well as more of an incentive for  
> people to join their local UG. I would not want to try to come to a  
> closed definition of what constitutes a UG. Lets just create an  
> interface were people can register their UG and manage the email  
> address for the contact person (and maybe a few other things like  
> their website etc). People can create physical UGs as well as  
> virtual UGs for all I care. If we notice that this liberal approach  
> gets abused (people faking UGs to get direct access and more voting  
> rights) we can decide on taking some protective measures. But for  
> now lets just assume that everybody in the community understands the  
> beauty of such a liberal approach.
>
> ---
>
> Just like in my previous email. Please all try to focus on sending  
> high quality replies to this list. So lets all restrain ourselves  
> and wait a bit longer than usual before replying. Maybe someone else  
> will already make the point you want to make and in the mean time  
> you can think things over and optimize your message.
>
> regards,
> Lukas Kahwe Smith
> mls@pooteeweet.org
>
> PS: I have published the above text as an RFC on the wiki .. http://wiki.php.net/rfc/managinglisttraffic
>
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