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Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 05:57:24 +1030
To: "Stan Vassilev | FM" <sv_forums@fmethod.com>
Cc: internals@lists.php.net
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Clarifying the resolution rules
From: josh.sickmate@gmail.com (Josh)

Stan,

You are so correct. I change my vote. Im assuming putting everything
into the php namespace would allow 'use php', correct?
In this case all that would be needed to get existing functionality
would be to add 'use php' to the top of every file.

Perhaps a small piece of logic could be added where if there is no
namespace code in a file whatsoever (i.e. no 'namespace' or 'use'),
then php could implicitly call 'use php', so that tons of
non-namespace code would still work. Then when that code is converted
to namespaces, the users have the option to add 'use php' to every
file.

Also, sorry about the bad comparisons.

Regards,
Josh


On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 11:16 PM, Stan Vassilev | FM
<sv_forums@fmethod.com> wrote:
>> We are going to ignore the inherit problems that calling
>> file_get_contents(__FILE__); would cause...
>>
>> Also, I disagree with a PHP namespace. the looseness of the language
>> is one of its strong points. Some things should be made strict, I
>> agree, bit it start with a php namespace and where does it end? If
>> your not careful you end up with c# or java where doing anything
>> requires going through hundreds of classes and packages.
>
> Please let's avoid bad comparisons :P
>
> We need to be very well aware that the concept of namespace in its simple,
> clear, understandable form, represents:
>
> 1) no globals, everything in the namespace is in the namespace, including
> vars, constants, functions, classes and nested namespaces.
>
> 2) to refer to a global namespace, there's no magical fallback to another
> namespace (the global one), you need to "use" it specify it in your call
> explicitly. The very idea of namespaces is, that other names don't leak into
> your namespace.
>
> 3) we'll likely see in a future edition of PHP (5.4? 5.5? 6.0?) that many
> currently global functions with "pseudo namespaces" like array_*(),
> string_*() etc will gain concurrent aliases in a namespace:  \array\*()
> \string\*()   since if we keep adding stuff in globals, then why introduce
> namespaces at all?
>
> 4) any fallback, fudge, name leak, partial implementation represents
> complication of the namespace concept, it's a compromise that makes
> namespaces harder to implement, understand and use, but easier in the short
> term for porting code and the "global functions all over the place" issue
> PHP is so often criticised for.
>
> So, while I remain flexible on the scale of the options, I really wish
> people don't just think in the short term, since short term solutions are
> what caused the necessity to use "\" instead of "::" in the first place.
> When you're cornered by your ill past decisions, you either break BC (which
> we don't want to do), or add more WTF-s to the language as it evolves.
>
> Regards, Stan Vassilev
>
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