Newsgroups: php.internals
Path: news.php.net
Xref: news.php.net php.internals:41490
Mailing-List: contact internals-help@lists.php.net; run by ezmlm
Received-SPF: error (pb1.pair.com: domain pooteeweet.org from 88.198.8.16 cause and error)
Cc: Sean Coates <sean@caedmon.net>,
 Josh Davis <phpwnd@gmail.com>,
 Rodrigo Saboya <rodrigo.saboya@bolsademulher.com>,
 internals@lists.php.net
Message-ID: <F8253A8C-C6EA-4E3C-83AD-C39B1E9E685C@pooteeweet.org>
To: Stanislav Malyshev <stas@zend.com>
In-Reply-To: <49063A1D.7070804@zend.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v929.2)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 23:05:57 +0100
References: <49048EC1.9060908@chiaraquartet.net> <ge4ijk$mc6$1@ger.gmane.org> <4905EDA9.9050301@zend.com> <FA.52.34199.670F5094@pb1.pair.com> <11c607a60810271049y419c252q7e21cde9221f1996@mail.gmail.com> <490600CD.5020207@zend.com> <11c607a60810271252r4bedeea8q59ce5423891d8e59@mail.gmail.com> <49061E01.8060503@zend.com> <11c607a60810271344i1a8cf53fl149447ad2f687f99@mail.gmail.com> <490628DB.9060209@zend.com> <11c607a60810271422l68949427pe31786275b0b152c@mail.gmail.com> <08747094-6B50-4A0D-9057-DFD12108B6C6@caedmon.net> <94CCB864-179A-48DA-A89A-3859796A9257@pooteeweet.org> <49063A1D.7070804@zend.com>
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] namespace separator and whining
From: mls@pooteeweet.org (Lukas Kahwe Smith)


On 27.10.2008, at 23:01, Stanislav Malyshev wrote:

> Hi!
>
>> this seems like a very good idea to me. this way things default to  
>> "just work" (which imho is the PHP spirit), while its brain dead  
>> easy to detect misuse.
>
> They not "just work" - they "work" in a wrong way (not usable in any  
> practical application). And E_NOTICE is a non-solution here  - if we  
> know that it's wrong enough to put a warning there, why we don't  
> make it right? Why should we put another thing to stumble upon - why  
> people should learn another gimmick "you can write it that way, but  
> you never should do it because it works badly". If they shouldn't  
> write it that way - what would be the reason to allow them to do it  
> instead of giving clear error message that makes it easy to fix? I  
> can understand when such things are left over by BC reasons - but to  
> explicitly design the language in a way that needs footnotes and  
> warnings to code around bad design?

just the same reason as you can use a constant without initialization.  
out of the box PHP does not try to be a teacher. it lets you write you  
code that does what you need. but it lets you grow at the same time.  
this is how PHP got its huge userbase. we let people grow with their  
needs.

regards,
Lukas Kahwe Smith
mls@pooteeweet.org