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Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 23:08:04 +0200
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3
From: mls@pooteeweet.org (Lukas Kahwe Smith)


On 14.10.2008, at 22:55, Stanislav Malyshev wrote:

> Hi!
>
>> Only 8 hours ago, one Jean-Phillipe Serafin wrote: "Many people  
>> have starting working on top level application using namespaces, so  
>> there will a very bad buzz over the php community if namespaces are  
>> ripped out..." and there were further objections on the grounds  
>> that namespace support has been 'announced' on php.net.
>
> Exactly. This is because we announced it on conferences, talked  
> about it on lists and basically made a lot of noise about how cool  
> it would be very soon. And people believed us and took the risk. And  
> now you propose to teach them the lesson that trusting PHP core  
> developers that they actually deliver is a bad idea.

just to clarify .. there are solutions on the table that people have  
worked on hard and that are believed to solve the issues, albeit that  
come with some carefully chosen baggage. We are not discussing how to  
do things (this goes to Nathan's reply that just came in). if we  
remove namespaces now, after talking about it, prodding it, asking  
people to try it out, getting a lot of general positive vibe for this  
feature, coming up with a solution .. then i think we are doing our  
users a disservices. the proposals are not half baked omg we need to  
get this done quickly for alpha3 (note that alpha3 was delayed to get  
to this point).

of course waiting longer always gives the opportunity to improve tweak  
etc. but given that we might as wel stop releasing software altogether  
if we are unwilling to take the risk of a mistake.

anyways, given the current state most people voted to remove  
namespaces from PHP 5.3. i assume that all people that casted these  
votes were (and still are) confident that they actually know what they  
voted on. maybe some of the people involved in finding the current  
proposals will try to document the issues and the solution (and the  
issues in these solutions) onces more in the hopes of changing the  
minds of some of the people that have voted. i personally have spend  
enough time on namespaces for now that i will not involve myself in  
that any further for now.

regards,
Lukas Kahwe Smith
mls@pooteeweet.org